Q'n on vanilla HST program

[HST_Rihad]

Here it is: Sample two-week HST block using 10 reps.
As you can see, during the second week a person is allowed to do 1-2 sets on the moves considered heavy. In other words, he doesn't have to complete the second set if feeling fatigue. But on other, accessory moves, you ought to do 2 sets. Does that mean that I need to pick a weight so I don't hit accidental failure on the first set? If I work 1st set on biceps curls heavy enough for 10 reps, I'd probably only do 7-8 reps in the second set the recommended 1.5-2 minutes after. I kind of want to stick to how it's written, to minimize error.

 

[Totentanz]

No, it just means to rest enough between sets that you can likely hit all reps.

 

[HST_Rihad]

No, it just means to rest enough between sets that you can likely hit all reps.

Thanks. This has me wondering why in Chapter 3 of the HST FAQ it clearly says:

Overall, rest periods should be around 1.5-2 minutes.
Increase rest periods as you get into the heavier, neural ranges - on 5s and negs you will most
likely find it necessary to rest on the order of 2-5 minutes between sets.

So at loads close to 10RM one is still supposed to rest no more than 2 minutes, probably for some reasons involving putting muscle to specific kinds of stress.
Otherwise why not simply write "rest until you feel you're ready to go". The required length of rest would come naturally to all after a few tries.
There must be some reason for those 1.5-2 minutes. Or not?

 

[dempsey]

You're over analysing everything, these are just guide lines as every person is different.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Yet we learn to know that, for example, high-rep sets flush your tendons with lactic acid, enhancing their recovery and preparing them for higher loads. As they say, details matter. While opinions are in no way inherently unsound, it wouldn't hurt to know the current state of physiological research on this.

 

[Totentanz]

Thanks. This has me wondering why in Chapter 3 of the HST FAQ it clearly says:

So at loads close to 10RM one is still supposed to rest no more than 2 minutes, probably for some reasons involving putting muscle to specific kinds of stress.
Otherwise why not simply write "rest until you feel you're ready to go". The required length of rest would come naturally to all after a few tries.
There must be some reason for those 1.5-2 minutes. Or not?

Whatever copy you are reading did not include the whole quote. See the actual FAQ on this board, rather than whatever pdf you are reading from: Rest between sets

The Rest between sets is determined by the amount of time required to regain sufficient strength to successfully achieve the minimum effective Volume. There is not much to it, and you will not see any dramatic results by varying rest periods (within reason, of course)

Overall, rest periods should be around 1.5-2 minutes.

When moving from one body part to the next try to alternate between opposing or antagonistic body parts – commonly known as antagonistic pairing. E.g. 1 set of chest, rest, 1 set of back, rest, one set of chest, rest, 1 set of back, rest etc. This way your chest, shoulders, and tris can rest while you hit your back and bis. After a while you will find your aerobic capacity going up as this closely resembles sort of a power circuit.

You may shorten rest periods on 15s to attain the lactic acid effect - on the order of 30-60 seconds.

Increase rest periods as you get into the heavier, neural ranges - on 5s and negs you will most likely find it necessary to rest on the order of 2-5 minutes between sets.

Also, shorten rest periods earlier in the workout when you are fresh - then progressively increase rest periods as fatigue accumulates towards the end of the workout.

Please note this sentence:
The Rest between sets is determined by the amount of time required to regain sufficient strength to successfully achieve the minimum effective Volume.

And also this sentence, which basically says there is no sense in biting your nails over rest periods:

There is not much to it, and you will not see any dramatic results by varying rest periods (within reason, of course)

 

[Jester]

Yet we learn to know that, for example, high-rep sets flush your tendons with lactic acid, enhancing their recovery and preparing them for higher loads. As they say, details matter. While opinions are in no way inherently unsound, it wouldn't hurt to know the current state of physiological research on this.

Studying practical application of rest periods (power lifting, weight training done by professional sports players) would probably help a lot more than looking for a paper, to be blunt.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Whatever copy you are reading did not include the whole quote.

Thanks, guys. The one found on this board. It does include the full quote, albeit with some discrepancy.

Fact 1: The Rest between sets is determined by the amount of time required to regain sufficient strength to successfully achieve the minimum effective Volume. There is not much to it, and you will not see any dramatic results by varying rest periods (within reason, of course)

Fact 2: Overall, rest periods should be around 1.5-2 minutes.

This gets me thinking that, if I'm unable to rest no more than 1.5-2 minutes AND complete the second set of 10s, then I have either increased my loads way too much, or my strength endurance isn't "right", or whatnot. I can work out 2 sets no problem if I decrease the weight I start the exercise with, maybe that's what the author suggests.

Sure I can forget about what the book says and just follow the usual "gym routine" or train "intuitively", or pick the facts I like about HST while neglecting the ones I don't, but that's probably not what most of us are here for.

 

[Jester]

Sure I can forget about what the book says and just follow the usual "gym routine" or train "intuitively", or pick the facts I like about HST while neglecting the ones I don't, but that's probably not what most of us are here for.

The e-books, both of them, are cut&paste compilations of forum posts and the information provided by Bryan on the main page. The c&p jobs are not always complete, as Totentanz has illustrated.

In addition, the posts themselves are (naturally) summaries form original sources.

 

[Totentanz]

Thanks, guys. The one found on this board. It does include the full quote, albeit with some discrepancy.

This gets me thinking that, if I'm unable to rest no more than 1.5-2 minutes AND complete the second set of 10s, then I have either increased my loads way too much, or my strength endurance isn't "right", or whatnot. I can work out 2 sets no problem if I decrease the weight I start the exercise with, maybe that's what the author suggests.

I would recommend you do as Bryan states in the FAQ; simply rest long enough that you can complete all reps with the same weight.

Be sure you are also following Bryan's recommendation on volume as well.

 

[HST_Rihad]

The e-books, both of them, are cut&paste compilations of forum posts and the information provided by Bryan on the main page. The c&p jobs are not always complete, as Totentanz has illustrated.

But of course the whole thing is in the HST FAQ. I thought mentioning it as the source would be enough. Totentanz simply copied the whole chapter 3 in its entirety.

In addition, the posts themselves are (naturally) summaries form original sources.

Phew, so there's no way to know the answer short of reading all references and becoming a Ph.D. ?

Since Blade wrote that post (and thus, the chapter), I wonder if Bryan also supports that idea from physiological POV. I mean the "rest SHOULD be 1.5-2 minutes" part.

 

[Totentanz]

But of course the whole thing is in the HST FAQ. I thought mentioning it as the source would be enough. Totentanz simply copied the whole chapter 3 in its entirety.


Phew, so there's no way to know the answer short of reading all references and becoming a Ph.D. ?

Since Blade wrote that post (and thus, the chapter), I wonder if Bryan also supports that idea from physiological POV.

One is meant to assume that if it is in the FAQ, that the person posting was speaking for Bryan.

Often Blade would make posts in the FAQ where he simply pasted in things that Bryan had said. Sometimes the posts were things Blade has said. You will also find that the same happened with Bryan, where sometimes he would quote Blade, etc.

 

[HST_Rihad]

I would recommend you do as Bryan states in the FAQ; simply rest long enough that you can complete all reps with the same weight.

Don't mean to sound pesky, but it also says "should be 1.5-2 minutes"... I assume on 10's.
Blade has recently commented on one of my posts, I hope he or Bryan can clarify that part. Not that you're wrong or unhelpful, offering your help to newbs is invaluable, but you obviously can't read Blade's mind.

Be sure you are also following Bryan's recommendation on volume as well.

Since I'm following the vanilla HST program, I am already following recommendations. Although I continue sticking to 2 sets on 5's also. Workout "effectiveness" is probably compensated through increased loads and tension despite dropping the volume.

 

[Totentanz]

He gave those guidelines just because guys would not be satisfied unless they had a number to blindly follow. That is the only reason, and I know this for a fact. I don't know where the post from years ago is to quote it, but the intention is for you to use your judgement on rest periods without going to extremes either way, hence why they say "simply rest long enough that you can complete all reps with the same weight" but this isn't good enough for some people, they must have a number to adhere to or they freak out.

 

[Jester]

He gave those guidelines just because guys would not be satisfied unless they had a number to blindly follow. That is the only reason, and I know this for a fact. I don't know where the post from years ago is to quote it, but the intention is for you to use your judgement on rest periods without going to extremes either way, hence why they say "simply rest long enough that you can complete all reps with the same weight" but this isn't good enough for some people, they must have a number to adhere to or they freak out.

Ain't that the truth ...

 

[HST_Rihad]

He gave those guidelines just because guys would not be satisfied unless they had a number to blindly follow. That is the only reason, and I know this for a fact. I don't know where the post from years ago is to quote it, but the intention is for you to use your judgement on rest periods without going to extremes either way, hence why they say "simply rest long enough that you can complete all reps with the same weight" but this isn't good enough for some people, they must have a number to adhere to or they freak out.

You linked to it in this topic: Rest between sets although it's closed for discussions.

Thanks, guys, meanwhile I _am_ resting all I want (3 minutes on heavy 10s) and I usually can hit all reps on second set of 10s, now I can at least rest assured that I'm not going the wrong way.

 

[Totentanz]

All I'm saying is not to worry about it too much. So far there doesn't seem to be any research showing a benefit for reducing volume so that you can keep rest between sets low.

In fact, if you look at max-stim, myo-reps, etc, it seems that rest time between sets shouldn't matter in that context.