question about the 2 sets

S

smartin999

New Member
hi,

first of all: sorry for my english, it is not my mother language
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i have a question about the 2 sets per exercise in HST:

when i go "close to fatigue" in the first set at the end of the 15's, 10's and 5's how should i 'handle' the second set. i will not be able to do 15,10 or 5 sets AGAIN.

can you help me ?
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(smartin999 @ May 03 2009,11:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">when i go &quot;close to fatigue&quot; in the first set at the end of the 15's, 10's and 5's how should i 'handle' the second set. i will not be able to do 15,10 or 5 sets AGAIN.</div>
My suggestion would be one of the following: 1) stop close to fatigue no matter what the rep count is, or 2) use clustering to hit the designated number of reps. I prefer the latter since I manage my routine to overall volume and not sets. If burnout sets in, I may switch to option 1 or, more likely, reduce the frequency. Bottom line is that it won't matter much as long as you are eating right and following HST principles. Experiment to determine what works best for you.
 
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(omega99 @ May 03 2009,1:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(smartin999 @ May 03 2009,11:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">when i go &quot;close to fatigue&quot; in the first set at the end of the 15's, 10's and 5's how should i 'handle' the second set. i will not be able to do 15,10 or 5 sets AGAIN.</div>
My suggestion would be one of the following: 1) stop close to fatigue no matter what the rep count is, or 2) use clustering to hit the designated number of reps. I prefer the latter since I manage my routine to overall volume and not sets. If burnout sets in, I may switch to option 1 or, more likely, reduce the frequency. Bottom line is that it won't matter much as long as you are eating right and following HST principles. Experiment to determine what works best for you.</div>
well, i would prefer 1) now. maybe later in HST (next circle) i will try clustering.

but is 1) not against the HST principles ? for example, take the FIRST 15's, 10's and 5's in the first week. you do your first set without going to fatigue. but in the second set you have to go close to fatigue. and reducing the rep's -&gt; i think this is against the 'rules' of HST ?
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If you are close to your RM for a particular rep range, attempting any subsequent sets will probably push you to failure before you complete the required number of reps - unless you take lengthy rest periods between sets.

If you have set up your cycle correctly you should find that reaching failure only occurs in the last workout or two for any rep range. If it's happening before this then perhaps you need a little extra rest between sets. It's no big deal if you find you get quite close to failure on any second or third sets but if you find that your workouts are suffering from the extra fatigue you could do something like this:

Eg. For 10s:
1st week: 2 x 10
2nd week : 1 x 10, 2 x 5

If you apply this idea during the second week of 5s then it'll amount to clustering, as omega99 pointed out.

ie. 3 x 5 might become 5, 4, 3, 3
 
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(Lol @ May 03 2009,1:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you are close to your RM for a particular rep range, attempting any subsequent sets will probably push you to failure before you complete the required number of reps - unless you take lengthy rest periods between sets.

If you have set up your cycle correctly you should find that reaching failure only occurs in the last workout or two for any rep range. If it's happening before this then perhaps you need a little extra rest between sets. It's no big deal if you find you get quite close to failure on any second or third sets but if you find that your workouts are suffering from the extra fatigue you could do something like this:

Eg. For 10s:
1st week: 2 x 10
2nd week : 1 x 10, 2 x 5

If you apply this idea during the second week of 5s then it'll amount to clustering, as omega99 pointed out.

ie. 3 x 5 might become 5, 4, 3, 3</div>
i think that is no problem to go to fatigue in the second set.

there is a small 'problem' with my workout as i am NOT able to do anything for my legs (injury problem). so i have more 'power' for the other parts of the body.

but what i am wondering about is that HST says 'don't go to fatigue'. well, with the second set i AM GOING TO FATIGUE !
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As Lol suggested, try resting longer between sets. It won't violate any HST rules. You should consider ending the second set when your rep speed is slowing significantly, taking a rest and then finishing the set once you are rested.
 
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(Totentanz @ May 03 2009,3:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As Lol suggested, try resting longer between sets.  It won't violate any HST rules.  You should consider ending the second set when your rep speed is slowing significantly, taking a rest and then finishing the set once you are rested.</div>
do you mean the rest between set 1 and 2 OR the rest IN set 2 ? and how long this set &quot;during&quot; a set should be ?
 
Both. Rest longer between set 1 and set 2, and then when fatigued in set 2, stop and rest before completing set 2. How long doesn't matter, just rest long enough to regain your strength.
 
For you HST veterans, please correct me if I'm wrong based on your responses in this thread.

For example, I'm on set 2 of my 10s. Fatigue kicks in at rep #6. Is it OK to stop and rest, then complete reps #7-10 after my rest?

From my understanding, as long as we get the number of reps per workout is the goal. Thanks again.
 
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(Totentanz @ May 03 2009,5:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Both.  Rest longer between set 1 and set 2, and then when fatigued in set 2, stop and rest before completing set 2.  How long doesn't matter, just rest long enough to regain your strength.</div>
well, i am still a little bit confused about the rest within a set, i never heard about that.

for example: bench press. do you only mean a 'short wait' (some seconds) or do you mean a 'real' rest like 2 minutes or so ? thats the point i am confused about
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One of the best quotes Ive read in understanding the answer to your question is to &quot;forget about the number of SETS and concentrate more on the number of target REPS&quot;. This is where clustering comes in. If you are doing 2x15 your target reps are 30. If you do 15 to near failure, stop, rest a few minutes and do, for example, 8 more. Now you are at 23. Then do 4 more. Then do 3. You have hit your target number of REPS even though it technically took you 4 sets to get there.
 
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(champ.49er @ May 03 2009,5:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">For you HST veterans, please correct me if I'm wrong based on your responses in this thread.

For example, I'm on set 2 of my 10s.  Fatigue kicks in at rep #6.  Is it OK to stop and rest, then complete reps #7-10 after my rest?

From my understanding, as long as we get the number of reps per workout is the goal.  Thanks again.</div>
Correct. Fatigue isn't all that important so there isn't any good reason to wear yourself out to hit 20 reps when you can rest and hit 20 reps without killing yourself.
 
One thing to bear in mind when using lighter loads (ie. those in the 15-10RM range) is that you won't be getting full fibre recruitment until you've completed a high proportion of the reps in the set. So, although fatigue isn't what's important about a set, it does serve to force recruitment of more fibres as the set continues. If you are going to break up a second set into two or three mini-sets, or clusters, don't take a long rest between each mini-set. Just allow ~30 seconds and then get back on it. If you've taken enough rest before starting a second or third set you shouldn't need more than that to reach your desired rep total. When the loads are heavier (ie. during the 5s - particularly the second week) you'll be at full recruitment (or very close to) from the get go.

If I use squats as an example, what I would do in the case of my 15RM workout would be to get 15 reps with my first set (that would be really hard), enjoy the lactic acid rush while resting for 3 mins, get under the bar again and try to get around 10 good reps. At that point I would either pause for a few breaths, squeeze out a few more reps, pause for a few more breaths and get the last reps, or I'd rack the bar, wait for 30 seconds and then go for the last 5 or so reps. It is also possible that I would call it quits after a second set of 10 and be happy with 25 total reps. It just depends how I'm feeling on the day. On any RM workout day, It's certainly not vital to kill yourself on the first set but I happen to like making new PRs so I tend to push pretty hard.
 
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