Question on exercises

B

BigL

New Member
Hey, I only like to do 1 set for isolation workouts during the 10 and 5 weeks and I dont do Iso's at all during the 15s so I was wondering about two exercises that im not sure whether i should treat as a compound or iso.

Lat pull downs: I also do bentover rows (the machine and the diagram indicates that it hits the lats and the entire back) but not sure if I am hitting my lats enough so I was wondering if I should treat lat pull downs as a compound.

Shrugs: Bentover rows apparently also hit my traps but should I also treat shrugs as a compound since no other exercise really its it? Or does dumbbell presses also hit the traps?

Thanks in advance.
 
Lat pull-downs are a compound (movement across two or more joints).

All kinds of presses work the traps to some degree. If you are deadlifting heavy you will be working your traps pretty hard but adding in shrugs is no bad thing. Traps are very strong muscles and can take a lot of loading, far more than from bent-over rows.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lat pull downs: I also do bentover row machine I use also hit my lats but not sure if I am hitting my lats enough so I was wondering if I should treat lat pull downs as a compound.</div>

Lat pull downs is a compound exercise, but chins is even better, have you tried them? Some movement...just...better!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Shrugs: Bentover rows apparently also hit my traps but should I also treat shrugs as a compound since no other exercise really its it? Or does dumbbell presses also hit the traps?</div>

No shrugs is an iso movement if done correctly, when you start using other muscles you're cheating and then it is not shgrugs per se
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Deadlifts hits the traps big time, try them.

Look in here for other exercises that hit teh traps Shoulder

Trapezius
 
Squats and dead together will depend on your conditioning. Others tend to alternate them. As said, deads will hit the traps, but not quite as good as shrugs...but if you're doing deads on a given day and squats on the others, I'd do shrugs on squat days and skip them on dead days. Your shrugs will be standing flat-footed, NOT using your calves or knees to help lift the weight.
Think of iso's as assistance where needed. So, if your arms are working hard in rows, bench and other big movements, that is where you may want to skip the iso's. Doing the highrep scheme (15's) is more when you'd want to add them in, rather than in with your heavy lifts. The big four (squats, rows, presses, and deads) really should be the mainstay of your routine, or the core, and all else is technically superficial, since these are the main 'growth' movements that signal the body to produce GH and testosterone. If you are completely new to lifting, iso's are more important in the first cycle IMO, because before getting into really heavy lifting, you need to get in shape for it, and you don't want any weak links.
But it's still advisable to incorporate the big four right off, starting light and learning the movements and practicing form, so you don't get injured later. It's not unusual for someone to have 12-14 exersizes per workout at first. But you can cut out the iso's as you progress. Much later in life, iso's are added back in for the advanced stages as needed.
If you're allready a lifter, the &quot;simplify and win&quot; thread applies to you best:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....implify
 
Thanks for the response, you mentioned doing Isos during the 15 week and possibly skip them during the heavier weeks where I was doing the exact opposite. I skip the isos during the 15s and do them on the heavier weeks.
 
Here again, if you're totally new to lifting, I'd do iso's throughout the whole cycle to get your joints toughened, build up the minor assistance muscles and just focus on getting into condition for bigger things. Foundations are totally important in BB'ing, and help you in the long run to achieve more. Skip something and you have a weakness that will show up later.
Vince Goronda, the famous hollywood trainer used to tell the actor-types that came to him to bulk up, &quot;Go get in shape; then I'll train you.&quot; He knew his stuff.
 
Good ol' Quad is an authority... listen up!
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That is that, there is basically nothing to add in here, and if you like Vince, read up some of his stuff...inspiring!
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Been working out for over 10 years. I thought it was worthless to do the isos during the 15's because all the 15s do was condition your body for the heavier sets which I thought the 5 basic core excersises could do. During the heavier weeks I like to do an iso workout, for only 1 set, with bi's tris, hamstrings and traps. Been doing it for a few years and love the results.
 
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(Fausto @ Jan. 30 2007,13:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Good ol' Quad is an authority... listen up!
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That is that, there is basically nothing to add in here, and if you like Vince, read up some of his stuff...inspiring!
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No, I'm just going all out for my Post Troll award!
 
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(BigL @ Jan. 30 2007,08:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey, I only like to do 1 set for isolation workouts during the 10 and 5 weeks and I dont do Iso's at all during the 15s so I was wondering about two exercises that im not sure whether i should treat as a compound or iso.</div>
The kind of shrugs I do are definitely compound. My quads, traps, and bis and neck are getting a workout. Maybe I should come up with a special name for them and just say I don't do shrugs.

Even though shrugs might be technically considered as an iso, I'd choose flyes as my iso exercise, but if you're already doing those then I'd choose a good tricep exercise for isos.
 
BigL: I think in your case i would keep doing the isos during the heavy part of the cycle, esp if they are working for you. I can't see the problem if you are gaining from them. It only makes sense to drop isos if they start to limit your recovery and therefore compromise the loads you can lift for your big compounds.

Putting your main focus on the compounds and adding in isos if you have the time and energy (and inclination) makes good sense to me. A few isos are great for bringing up lagging bodyparts too, as Quad pointed out.

A lot of folks I see training tend to focus on isos and miss out the compounds, often because it is much less taxing.
 
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(BigL @ Jan. 30 2007,21:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How do you do your shrugs?</div>
I do 10 reps with 90% of my 1 rep max on the deadlift. To accomplish that I have to bend my knees slightly, use my quads to help me get the weight up, and other cheating techniques. My shoulders don't even get remotely close to my ear lobes. When I'm done I feel the entire trap muscle, going all the way down to the middle of my back. It's a great way to injure yourself if you aren't careful
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's a great way to injure yourself if you aren't careful</div>

Damn, Steve no wonder you're calling it a compound, that is way over 450 pounds, you're a monster
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dude, but surely that is not for the feeble minded
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">No, I'm just going all out for my Post Troll award! </div>

Pity I can't dish them out, but no you're not a troll, just a well informed dude, University pof life I'd call it, and Gym Knowledge + HST, a good combination IMO!
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LOl. Thanks. Like I said in another thread to one of the posters the beauty of HST is that its very flexible.

Steve: I figured you were doing shrugs like that. I actually thought you were doing the full deadlift though.
 
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