Questions, questions, questions

I

ian

New Member
I posted earlier this month regarding the fact that I had never managed to carry out a full course of HST as I prefer training to the point of collapse.

Since then (due to me being very quiet in work) I have had the chance to read over your responses, other posts, the HST FAQs, interviews with Bryan etc and have begun to realise that I really do need to give this system a go.

I suppose the ‘change of mind moment’ was reading about Bryan and how he trained (using similar methods to me for years) and after initial gains he plateaud. It then started to dawn on me that I have plateaud over recent years. My initial growth was prolonged after I started training with serious power lifters and bodybuilders and by the age of 19/20 living a life of gym, eat and sleep I was about as good as it gets for my natural self.

Since then (I’m 24 now) I have not progressed any further. I've basically stayed around the same weight, I have simply spent time 'training not gaining' (i'm going to patent that phrase, it rules!!! Sounds like something out of dodgeball!!!).
The more I read on the more I realised I go to the gym and kill myself without gaining strength, I look the same in the mirror, i know longer hear ‘have you got bigger?’ ...... my mum has even stopped telling me I’m getting too big!!!

So I’m going to give HST a full on go….
I’m going to follow it to the letter, I’m going to do everything right, I’m going to take measurements, maybe even the odd picture so that I know exactly how and where I’m growing.

The plan is to spend the next three weeks working out my rep maxes and gaining enough knowledge to carry out HST correctly, so I’m going to start asking a series of questions on this post and hope you guys can help.

I appreciate you all probably get these stories and questions again and again... so apologies and thanks in advance,

Ian
 
I need to draw up a routine that fits me. The main factor being I have spent near enough 10 years doing a series of routines involving 1 or 2 body parts and set after set.

Question 1
Baring in mind my background is something like the routine placed on the HST home page enough to benefit me?
 
Question 2 (sort of blends into question 1)
In the FAQ’s ‘How many sets’, it is stated….. .

‘Obviously, a guy who is used to doing something like 12 sets for back once per week, is not going to gain much by dropping to doing only 1 set for back even if it is 3 times per week. He went from 12 sets to 3 sets per week. Not only that, but HST would have him use submax weights most of the time where he is obviously plateaued and used to doing 100% max weights (Not true 100%, but 100% with the fatigue that inevitably accumulates by the 3rd set). This is just too great a reduction in training to provide him with significant gains. The key here of course is Strategic Deconditioning, which would then allow him to begin growing again, with less "average" weight and volume, but higher frequency.’

Well that guy is me! In fact, 12 sets for back is nothing, in the past I’ve probably done well over 20, but I’ve cut it down due to my readings in recent years. So how many sets should i do for HST? Maybe i need to do more than someone new to the gym, but at the same time I want to stick to HST ideas. I know the FAQ says work it out for yourself, but some help would be welcome!
 
Question 3

DOMS - This effect is mentioned quite frequently in the FAQ.
To be honest i only really experience DOMS when i really hit the muscle and work it to its max, therefore i'd only be expecting to feel any muscle tenderness on the 'max' weight days? Is this correct or is it possible you'll feel the muscle on the first days of a rep range?
 
Question 4

According to the FAQs....

'The reason HST calls for more frequent training is because the acute anabolic effects of training, such as increased protein synthesis, muscle-specific IGF-1 expression, and other factors involved in modulation of short term protein synthesis, only last for 36-48 hours.'
The predominant routine suggested is every other day, 3 days a week, ie monday, wednesday, friday.
I do not really understand how these two correlate exactly....
ie why do we not train every 24 hours as opposed to 48 hours?
or monday, wednesday, friday, sunday, monday etc (why do we stop at the weekend for a reason or because this is handy or both?)

I'm sure this is exmplained somewhere, I believe Bryan trains 6 days a week, i've probably just missed it!
 
Ian, a few thoughts:

You are a well seasoned weight trainer. As such, HST will hopefully be able to supply you with some gains but I'm sure you know that without the aid of drugs there is a definite ceiling to the amount of lean body mass you will be able to build, dependent on your hormone levels, genetics etc. even if you do everything right.

If you check out a Maximum Drug-Free Bodybuilding Potential Calculator like this one:

Max Size Calculator

how do your present measurements stack up?

In other words, HST isn't magic but it is based on sound principles and is definitely worth trying if you still have room for improvement as a natty lifter.

In answer to your questions:

I would check out the Simplify & Win thread (see my footer for a link) and using your experience and judgement draw up a routine that you think will be good for you. Then post it here for us to make (hopefully, helpful) comments.

Along with progressive loading of your muscles at a frequency for optimal growth there is the very real issue of how much to do each session ie. 'right now' reps as opposed to total reps over the course of a week (I'm counting working load reps and not including warm-ups).

Let's say you were used to doing 9 work sets for bench once a week and you decide to split that up into 3 work sets, three times a week. That may be enough to trigger a PS response but it may not be much of a response and you might find that you need to do 5 sets each session to get a decent growth response. But then you find that fatigue builds up too much trying to do that with a 3 x weekly frequency. So, dropping frequency down to 2 x weekly with 5 work sets per session would likely be the smart thing to do. You are sacrificing frequency to allow you to do enough work each session to elicit a growth response.

The problem with all this is that nobody knows the ideal amount of work that you will need to do to get this to work. (What might be right for you at your level of conditioning might be way too much for someone else.) Add to that the fact that you will be starting off with lighter loads and higher reps per set and you have a bunch of variables to juggle with that all interact with each other.

In my experience I get better results with the lighter loads at the start of a cycle if I do more total reps  per exercise. I usually do at least 30-45 reps per exercise (2-3 x 15) at the start and gradually drop volume down as the loads go up. I usually try to get at least 20 reps per session with my 5RM loads or higher.

Anyway, hope you get something from that. Do put a routine together and post it here before kicking things off.
 
Re Question 3:

DOMS are not a good indicator that you have done enough work to trigger a PS response. After all, you can get DOMS by doing 100 reps with a light load.

After a 7-10 day SD I usually get DOMS just about everywhere at the start of my cycle. Then, things settle down and I'm usually slightly sore from the previous workout for the rest of the cycle.

In my case I am doing a sort of A/B/C split and training 3-6 times a week depending on my available time which means that there is sometimes a week between sessions where I use the same exercise (eg. front squats, deads, back squats). That seems to make DOM more likely too as the muscles are all worked over slightly different ranges of motion with each exercise.

Re Question 4:

Perhaps I partially answered this with my first post? It's always going to be a juggling act trying to train frequently enough to keep growth factors high whilst trying to prevent fatigue build-up as much as possible. If you did a 6 day split you could keep your training sessions shorter and likely do enough work to hit each muscle group 2 x weekly. I quite like this approach towards the heavy end of the cycle but at the start I can usually get all the work done in three or four weekly sessions.
 
Thanks LOL, i'll have to read everything you've put and your links fully.

Not what i wanted to hear regarding the max size, but i suppose i knew it.
I had about 17 inch arms with very low body fat before the age of 20, pretty sure my chest was about 50 inches back then too (although my memory may be wrong!) and seeing as my wrists/ ankles are tiny it looks like thats about it.

The thing that gets me is that I grew and grew during initial development and just seemed to stop. I did used to eat and train like someone who's life depended on it, but i surely i was not at my genetic potential before the age of 21?
 
ian lol has answered most of your questions,but why are you taking 3wks to work out your maxes it can be done in 1wk,15s mon,10s wed, 5s fri, then you could sd for 2wks.

also remember to give it a few cycles at least 3 before you decide if its good or not.

you can train 6 times a wk using hst do 3 bodyparts m,w,f, and 3 bodyparts,tu,th,sa, or push pull.good luck
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thanks faz, i'm using the 3 weeks to get a clue what i'm doing.... to read in to everything, take measurements etc. I don't want to do what i've done in the past (saw it on the web, looked good, started it straight away, no doubt did half of it wrong, decided it wasnt for me before i'd finished a cycle)
 
Ian, I would suggest, since you've been training heavy for a long time, probably next max frequently, to try a long SD to maximize the effectiveness of HST. I like faz's suggestion of 2 weeks. If you do your last workout to determine 5RM on Friday, take 2 weeks of and start Monday, you'll SD for 17 day, which will probably help you put HST to it's fullest.
Best of luck.
 
Ian most guys here would kill to have 17" arms and a 50" chest with low bodyfat!  It sounds to me like you won't get much bigger (without steroids, and even that might not help much).
 
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(scientific muscle @ Apr. 18 2008,5:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ian most guys here would kill to have 17&quot; arms and a 50&quot; chest with low bodyfat!  It sounds to me like you won't get much bigger (without steroids, and even that might not help much).</div>
depends how tall he is,17inch on someone 6ft plus isnt massive.
 
You can total your tonnage from your previous workouts and see how many sets (we're talking weekly here) you need to come close to it; that may open some understanding for you. The differences are obvious though, more frequency, continuous progression etc. and of course the SD requiring HST to utilize less to do more.
 
Ian

Lol gave you the best advice any one of us could give.

You may be very close to your ceiling, on the other hand you may find your self pleasantly surprised with HST, nevertheless training in a more sensible way is a gas and it pays off, so why go so intense?

Take a 21 day SD at least, then if you do a 15 x 2 / 10 x 3 / 5 x 6 you should be around the territory you used to.

Then after the 5's try some Max-stim you'll be pleasently surprised to be able to lift 5 RM weight for 20 reps!
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<div>
(ian @ Apr. 18 2008,10:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">thanks faz, i'm using the 3 weeks to get a clue what i'm doing.... to read in to everything, take measurements etc. I don't want to do what i've done in the past (saw it on the web, looked good, started it straight away, no doubt did half of it wrong, decided it wasnt for me before i'd finished a cycle)</div>
although i agree that your max's could be found much quicker than the target you set.i have to admire your thoroughness,it is important to get it right and to get a grasp of what you are doing.

my first few cycles wernt as productive as they should have been. besides if you were that big back then,it sounds to me like you got the genetics for it.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">although i agree that your max's could be found much quicker than the target you set.i have to admire your thoroughness,it is important to get it right and to get a grasp of what you are doing.</div>

good point by icars.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You may be very close to your ceiling, on the other hand you may find your self pleasantly surprised with HST, nevertheless training in a more sensible way is a gas and it pays off, so why go so intense?</div>

another good point by fausto.
even if you only make the same gains as you would on another workout at least you wont burnout or get an injury,because its a much more sensible way of training.
 
Thanks guys, sorry for not replying, currently got no internet of the weekend.....

I took my measurements (wrist/ankles) as i was running out the house this morning with one of those metal tape measures, so it's as inaccurate as you can get but......


Height: 68 in Wrist: 7 in
Ankle: 10 in

The estimated maximum muscular measurements (@ ~8%-10% bodyfat) are:

Chest: 49.3 in Biceps: 17.4 in
Forearms: 13.7 in Neck: 17.2 in
Thighs: 27.8 in Calves: 18.3 in

I also took my chest and bicep measurements which was about 48 inches and 16.5 inches (i haven't trained arms for about 2 months though as of a routine that stated they were trained enough in other compound movements).

Basically does look like i was virtually at my max when i was 20/21! I suppose I had already been eating /training hard for 5 years, but thats still quite depressing!
 
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