I
imported_etothepii
Guest
How high should the bar be, in relation to your knees? Also, how much should you be able to pull, above your DL max?
Varies. Typically you will start with the bar just above the knee. You can start lower if you want. I actually pull from just under the kneecap now.
As for how much compared to your DL... depends. For most people, the top half is a lot easier than the bottom half, so you should be able to do significantly more than your max dead. I can rack pull over 100 lbs more than my max deadlift, so hard to say. You could just start with your max deadlift, pull a few reps of that, then stick on a couple more plates, pull a few, etc etc until you find your max.
Just beware - rack pulls hit the back (especially lower back) like nothing else, at least in my experience.
As for how much compared to your DL... depends. For most people, the top half is a lot easier than the bottom half, so you should be able to do significantly more than your max dead. I can rack pull over 100 lbs more than my max deadlift, so hard to say. You could just start with your max deadlift, pull a few reps of that, then stick on a couple more plates, pull a few, etc etc until you find your max.
Just beware - rack pulls hit the back (especially lower back) like nothing else, at least in my experience.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
I tried some in the squat cage at the Y. The bar settings were about 4 inches below the knee to about 3-4 inches above the knee -- no choice inbetween. I chose the lower and did my DL 5 RM + 20 lbs. This was after 4 sets of my RM in the dead lift, so I only did 10 singles on the pull.
It was pretty tough, so the bar was probably too low. The higher bar would probably be too high though. Hmm...
It was pretty tough, so the bar was probably too low. The higher bar would probably be too high though. Hmm...
UFGatorDude30
New Member
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?
Out of curiosity, what is?
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 07 2007,16:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?</div>
For the second half, I usually settle into a big armchair with a bowl of chips and some jalapeno dip.
Unless, of course, it's Ohio State playing the Florida Gators. In which case I just turn off the TV and put on a black armband...
[Sorry, I couldn't resist...]
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 07 2007,16:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?</div>
For the second half, I usually settle into a big armchair with a bowl of chips and some jalapeno dip.
Unless, of course, it's Ohio State playing the Florida Gators. In which case I just turn off the TV and put on a black armband...
[Sorry, I couldn't resist...]
UFGatorDude30
New Member
<div>
(TunnelRat @ Aug. 07 2007,15:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 07 2007,16:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?</div>
For the second half, I usually settle into a big armchair with a bowl of chips and some jalapeno dip.
Unless, of course, it's Ohio State playing the Florida Gators. In which case I just turn off the TV and put on a black armband...
[Sorry, I couldn't resist...]</div>
If it makes you feel any better, my mom is a Michigan alum so I was raised part Michigan.. and needless to say, I think Troy and his boys did what they needed to do to them.
(TunnelRat @ Aug. 07 2007,15:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 07 2007,16:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?</div>
For the second half, I usually settle into a big armchair with a bowl of chips and some jalapeno dip.
Unless, of course, it's Ohio State playing the Florida Gators. In which case I just turn off the TV and put on a black armband...
[Sorry, I couldn't resist...]</div>
If it makes you feel any better, my mom is a Michigan alum so I was raised part Michigan.. and needless to say, I think Troy and his boys did what they needed to do to them.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Hehehe .... I'm a Michigan transplant living in Columbus, Ohio ...
Anyway, I look at the rack pull as a way to get used to the feeling of heavy weight. My DL max is only 225 (5 rm), so adding some pounds to that gets me used to the feel of it so hopefully, my DL will go up.
Anyway, I look at the rack pull as a way to get used to the feeling of heavy weight. My DL max is only 225 (5 rm), so adding some pounds to that gets me used to the feel of it so hopefully, my DL will go up.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
<div>
(colby2152 @ Aug. 07 2007,17:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Can a Penn State Alum jump into this convo?</div>
Big 10 (well, Penn's the 11th) is welcome with me!!!
(colby2152 @ Aug. 07 2007,17:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Can a Penn State Alum jump into this convo?</div>
Big 10 (well, Penn's the 11th) is welcome with me!!!
<div>
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 08 2007,10:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?</div>
people typically adjust their technique for a more advantageous position when they are pulling from a rack, so if you start at the knee, you get people who are pulling much more than they are capable of from the floor and the carry over ends up being worthless.
If you are pulling from the rack, make it below the knee for the most part. Some time spent above the knee is ok, but most of it below the knee. if we take Louies observations that if you are pulling >10% more than your max pull, on the racks, its not really worth it. (altho Chuck V has rack pulled >1000 and his best dead is in the mid 800s or so).
To get specific loading, you can add bands to the pull, so you over load the lockout, or you can add in chains which do the same thing in a different way. Reverse bands are another option.
You also have to strengthen the entire muscularture in the upper back, all of the core shoulder muscles should be strong as hell, as they are the ones that will control the scapula position and ultimately the lockout position.
Heavy rows, facepulls, multiple angle shrugs (upper/mid/lower), chins etc.
Hip work is also important, to get that last little bit of lockout from the hips, glute, hammie etc. Romanian deadlifts, glut/ham raises, reverse hypers etc.
Technique is vital as well, but its relatively individual specific (torso lengths, limb length etc.
(UFGatorDude30 @ Aug. 08 2007,10:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But a rack pull is not always the best way to train the 2nd half. </div>
Out of curiosity, what is?</div>
people typically adjust their technique for a more advantageous position when they are pulling from a rack, so if you start at the knee, you get people who are pulling much more than they are capable of from the floor and the carry over ends up being worthless.
If you are pulling from the rack, make it below the knee for the most part. Some time spent above the knee is ok, but most of it below the knee. if we take Louies observations that if you are pulling >10% more than your max pull, on the racks, its not really worth it. (altho Chuck V has rack pulled >1000 and his best dead is in the mid 800s or so).
To get specific loading, you can add bands to the pull, so you over load the lockout, or you can add in chains which do the same thing in a different way. Reverse bands are another option.
You also have to strengthen the entire muscularture in the upper back, all of the core shoulder muscles should be strong as hell, as they are the ones that will control the scapula position and ultimately the lockout position.
Heavy rows, facepulls, multiple angle shrugs (upper/mid/lower), chins etc.
Hip work is also important, to get that last little bit of lockout from the hips, glute, hammie etc. Romanian deadlifts, glut/ham raises, reverse hypers etc.
Technique is vital as well, but its relatively individual specific (torso lengths, limb length etc.