Results: First cycle, but an injury...

Tradnyx

New Member
A little about me, I've been lurking here for a couple of months.  I'm in my early-mid

40's, have been training off and on for about 25 years.  Mostly off, unfortunately.  Was

an HIT devotee for many early years, and I never quite abandonded some of its ideas, so

I usually trained heavy and to near failure.  Later, I periodized somewhat, realized the

joke that pure HIT was, and got some good gains.   I'm a short guy, so I dont need alot

of mass to "look big", but I've never been ripped, at best about 10%BF, currently at

about 20%

I've been on a long layoff, a few years, but having been a decent size, muscle memory

has always been my friend.  Usually withing 3-6 months, I'd be back to 85-90%.  At my

age, however, I wanted to be careful and go at it slowly.

HST seemed the way to go. 2 weeks (6 workouts) at 15 reps? Sounded crazy, but in a good

"makes sense" sort of way, especially for older joints and tendons.  Training 3x per

week? Wow, I was killing myself 1x per week (per muscle group), and enduring horrible

DOMS for several days each week.  So this was going to be something totally new, the

biggest training change for me in a decade..

I used a vanilla routine, set up before I totally read everything, including "Pimp my

HST", and alot of the posts here.  So I ended up with more sets than most (15 exercises

total each workout) .  But hey, I kept growing, didn't seem to be overtraining, so what

the heck?  As you can see, I like keeping the total reps about 15-25.  I know, alot, but it was working great!

Sets at reps

15,10,5 Exercize

1,2,3 Incline Dumbell Press
1,2,2 Dips

1,2,3 Squats
1,2,3 Leg Curl
1,2,2 Leg Ext

1,2,3 Pull Down
1,2,2 Row

1,2,3 Dumbell Mil Press
1,2,2 Dumbell Lat. Raises

1,2,3 EZ Curl or Incline Dumbell Curls
1,2,3 Tricep Extension or Overhead Extensions

1,2,2 Calf Raises

1,2,3 Shrugs


I ate alot for the first 12-20 hours after the workouts, the remainder, I ate like a bird.  Why? I was afraid of getting fatter, and I was already about 25% at the time.

I also used Creatine, starting with the 10's.  Only 5mg per day, a slow loading.

Anyways, in 6 weeks, I gained as much as I usually do in 3-6 months of my usual training after a layoff.  Yes it was muscle memory and Creatine, but heck, it was great!  I didn't make careful measurements, and my body weight didnt increase alot, maybe 5lbs, but alot of that might be creatine.  My body fat dropped about 5%, and even though I am still a fat f*ck at 20% (mostly around the abdominal area, upper body looks good) or so, I look better than I have in about 7 years, in only SIX WEEKS!

Ok, now for the bad news... as you can see, I was doing too many sets, especially at 5 reps.  Although to be honest, if I didnt superset them, I did them almost like clustered reps.  I'd do 5, rest 30 seconds, another 5, 30 seconds, and then 5.  But still, by the 4th workout at 5 reps, with the weights getting pretty heavy, my shoulders cried uncle!
Nothing sudden, just a gradual onset of soreness that I ignored, until after the 4th workout, I realized, stupidly, that I was having joint problems.  My shoulders have been that way for me for many, many years.. the weak link, joint wise.  So I quit after the 4th workout, am doing my SD now.  This type of soreness usually lasts a few weeks, then I'm good to go.

I'll be much smarter with my next HST cycle.  Less exercises for sure.
A quick question, is pain a good indicator as to what exercises I can do?  I hate to screwup a recovering shoulder.  I think its the overhead pressing that messed them up.
 
Yeah, join the party mate, I'll be forty soon and also screwed up my shoulders, with a mixture of things including OHP's.

To cut the story short, this cycle (and I am extending the 5's now) I have been totally off shoulders, except for therapy type exercises (cuban presses, L flyes etc, etc), and I have been ok.

You have to cut out most of the extra iso's you have to be able to do a good workout, put in some useful iso's towards the 5's if you will, but stick to about 5 or 6 exercises per workout.

Using A/B type alternating workouts is a nice way of putting more exercises into the mix!

Pain is not an indicator, DOMS only to an extent, it should go away within two workouts or else it is either too heavy for the rep scheme or there is too much volume ro not enough rest.

Hope this helps for now!
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(Fausto @ Aug. 01 2006,16:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, join the party mate, I'll be forty soon and also screwed up my shoulders, with a mixture of things including OHP's.

To cut the story short, this cycle (and I am extending the 5's now) I have been totally off shoulders, except for therapy type exercises (cuban presses, L flyes etc, etc), and I have been ok.

You have to cut out most of the extra iso's you have to be able to do a good workout, put in some useful iso's towards the 5's if you will, but stick to about 5 or 6 exercises per workout.

Using A/B type alternating workouts is a nice way of putting more exercises into the mix!

Pain is not an indicator, DOMS only to an extent, it should go away within two workouts or else it is either too heavy for the rep scheme or there is too much volume ro not enough rest.

Hope this helps for now!
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Thanks Fausto, I have enjoyed reading your posts on this forum for many weeks. I plan on implementing what you suggest, less exercises per workout, and alternating them between workouts as well.

I've learned alot since I started this cycle, I was pleased with the results, but I paid a price. Next time I will be more careful.
 
Tradnyx: Great results mate. I'm SDing right now after I injured my calf at the end of 5s. I'm 41 now and things were going great but I just pushed too hard I guess. I still feel like I'm 18 inside! We live and learn. So take care of those shoulders and don't skip the 15s. If things go well next cycle and you feel like extending the 5s just do it carefully.
 
i have a bad shoulder to. I find stick around 90 degrees for any exercise that really puts stress on it (mil press, flat bench, incline bench) with weight that is more then your body weight. I do a set that way, then drop the weight to my body weight and do it all the way.

I torn a rotator cuff, i have a bone spur, and had tendonitis in my shoulder (all baseball related) as well as a lot of scar tissue. I click whenever i move my shoulder in and out haha
 
Seeing as we're trading war stories about out shoulders... I've been on layoff for over 6 months now. I was in a bike crash in October and suffered a type 1 separation of my left shoulder. A LOT of pain (I can't imagine what a type 3 must feel like). Tons of NSAIDs and a lot of gentle rehab (like Fausto said- Cubans, L-laterals, lying lateral lifts, and rotations) later, I've gotten back into the swing. I'm still taking it easy though, at least as far as shoulders are concerned. No weight on the dips, and my incline benches are embarassingly light, but hey, it's *my* shoulders, right?
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Cnegotiator, my sympathies- you should check into the clicking. It usually indicates calcium deposits, which can be removed surgically (as an outpatient).

Tradnyx- I'm 56, and can definitely relate to getting back into it at a later age. Best of luck!
 
Didn't read everyones esle post entirely...but from seeing what you posted.

It looks like you shoud just follow a compound only routine...which equals less sets and maybe sd for 3 weeks do 2 weeks of 15's and then your shoulders will feel better?
 
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(Jake @ Aug. 01 2006,21:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Cnegotiator, my sympathies- you should check into the clicking. It usually indicates calcium deposits, which can be removed surgically (as an outpatient).</div>
yeah i have had it checked, and since im &quot;retired&quot; from baseball (im only 19 but i love referring to it as that) its not worth getting the surgery done unless it affects my everyday life; which it really doesnt. Since i can avoid the pain lifting, for now, im ok. I also need surgery on my thumb, and wrist as well as the back of my head (scar that grew with hair wrong which grew into a cyst and is recommended to get out before its too big or becomes cancerous even though it shouldnt). My back is also the pits.

However, since i also never skip 15s, i honestly feel my back is getting better and my wrist and shoulder do not bother me until heavy weight but i take precautions. 15s suck, but thank god for 'em!!!
 
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(cnegotiator @ Aug. 01 2006,20:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i have a bad shoulder to. I find stick around 90 degrees for any exercise that really puts stress on it (mil press, flat bench, incline bench) with weight that is more then your body weight. I do a set that way, then drop the weight to my body weight and do it all the way.

I torn a rotator cuff, i have a bone spur, and had tendonitis in my shoulder (all baseball related) as well as a lot of scar tissue. I click whenever i move my shoulder in and out haha</div>
hey bud that's my problem too...darned clicking gets painfull when it's cold and when i don't work out...
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I still feel like I'm 18 inside!</div>

Lol, I can side with you there! Feel the same way!

What really cracks me up is qadancer's signature

52 and not too blue, probably just as big as you
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shoulder problems i think a lot of us older gents have that
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sorry to say this but i think you might have to drop dips,or at least drop the weight and lean forward,if you do it leaning back or straight you use your delts..forward uses pecs.
also imo flat bench is bad for shoulder probs
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(faz @ Aug. 02 2006,07:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">shoulder problems i think a lot of us older gents have that
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sorry to say this but i think you might have to drop dips,or at least drop the weight and lean forward,if you do it leaning back or straight you use your delts..forward uses pecs.
also imo flat bench is bad for shoulder probs
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Yeah, I have already given up on flat benching, thats what did my shoulder in, back when I was going heavy all the time.

The thing with dips is, there is a &quot;groove&quot; there, leaning forward, where I dont feel any shoulder pain. As a matter of fact, I had never done dips as a workout, but I must say, I am completely convinced by them now. Much better than bench, in my opinion. Bench might be the most over rated movement in bodybuilding.
 
Dips is a great compound exercise, no question about that. I am always leaning forward to emphasize the chest, no shoulder problems so far (not even irritations). If you don't feel any pain when leaning forward, you should definitely try to keep dips in there.

Regards,
Dimitris
 
i will also agree, i have no shoulder pain at all doing dips and i just started to do them with my first HST cycle after NEVER doing them. Im on my 4th cycle i think, maybe 5th, and my chest has never been this defined (which isnt saying much for me compared to average lifters, but its amazing what dips really do add!)

And yes, flat bench is the worst for my shoulder and i think it is overrated too. I just be careful with it as i said earlier in the thread (more then body weight, around 90 degrees and no less).
 
yeah dips are
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but if you have shoulder probs be carefull as stated make sure you lean forward.
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