Scaling back intensity question

[G8r]

First, I'm in late 50's and have trained off and on since my late teens. All training up until my mid thirties had been multiple sets, with every set to failure (read too many "W" magazines). I did get bigger and stronger, but...training after that time has been touch and go as I was so seriously overtrained by then that it took quite awhile to even be able to think about training again. Though I have lifted some since, I've not been serious about it until about the last year or so. So, I'm probably a little extra cautious about overdoing things these days.

Anyway, I have recently and successfully completed a first HST cycle with great results, gained both strength and size. I recalculated RMs and started over. But after finishing the 15s on this cycle, doing two sets in each of only 5 lifts, I was wasted for the next 3 or 4 days needing to delay the start of the 10s. I guess I was back to my old habits of putting too much effort into completing all reps, thereby burning out. And I never figured that I'd overreach on 15's!

My question is: Has anyone else had this same issue and played with their routine to determine a measurable method of cutting back on intensity and then found a corresponding ability to increase volume as a result? Has anyone perhaps set RMs at 90% instead of 100% and realized they could eventually add another lift or two to their routine without burning out? Maybe there are articles/papers that help explain or define a correlation between intensity and volume that one can use to set up their training?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jester]

My question would be: why are you trying to increase volume?

HST, as routine, is constructed to elicit a maximal hypertrophic response using the minimal effective volume necessary to accomplish this. Load, and load progression are far more important than adding in extra sets. Studies have shown that sets beyond the first, and definitely beyond the second are of minimal<-->zero value in stimulating more growth than the first two sets.

If you're 'burning out', what you're really saying is that your CNS is being overworked; not your muscles. Excessive volume is 100% the best way to overtrain/burnout.

Post your routine up here to provide some more context. It may well be that you're including too many exercises per session (usually a case of too many isolations included).

Your age, lifestyle and diet will also be factors with regard to the workload you can manage.

 

[G8r]

AlexA,

Thanks for responding so quickly.

I was thinking of more volume being in the form of a greater number of lifts to be able to reach additional muscles not trained by current lifts which are compound only; Squats, BORows, Bench, Press and Good Mornings (thinking that Deads might be a bit too much). I did only two sets on each for 15s, 10s and 5s for my first cycle without issue. The second round was unchanged except for new RMs. These RMs may have been set more aggressively than first, being that they were set using an RM calculator from the ending sets of the last round. This round the same exercise were done as the first round of HST, but I didn't burn out on the first round.

I realize that both volume and intensity impact CNS fatigue (especially in old fart age), which is why I asked if anyone has had experience with a relationship between the two. I'll be able to get more experience as I progress, but just wondered if anyone has played around by backing off failure reps and seen that they could handle another lift or two.

For example, I noticed that Wendler's 531 sets RMs at 90% and suggesting that trainees stray only occasionally toward failure. Thus, when setting a 5RM one could actually do 10 reps with that weight. That seems a long ways away. Should I be training that far away from failure? Perhaps.

I sometimes wonder if the severity of an earlier overtrained state can teach one's system a lesson that it dreadfully wants to stay away from again, causing it to respond more quickly to hard exercise with failure symptoms. ??? I may just need to re-teach it that I won't knock it down so much this time.

 

[Jester]

I think the first thing to do is more accurately calculate your new RMs at the end of your cycle and not rely on a calculator to do it. If it is set too high, then you're going to be behind the 8-ball the whole way through.

Still stick with the specified rep ranges and maxes IMO, there's no reason to go to 6 or 7 RM instead of 5RM. You need the load, and the load progression to stimulate hypertrophy.

 

[G8r]

Good points Alex. I do think that I set my RMs at too high of an intensity level. Years of HIT tends to cause one to push harder than necessary as its been drummed into your head that pushing to the ragged edge is a good thing. I've never blown an eye out, but it's a habit I'll need to break and scale things down a couple of notches.

I also noticed that when doing 2 sets of 15's, 2 sets of 10's and 3 sets of 5's, the total load lifted during 15's actually works out to 22% greater (in terms of total lbs moved) than that of the 10's . When considering that 15's are supposed to be getting one ready for the heavier work, it's probably not a good idea to have them actually be that much more work. One set is probably enough. I've seen others on this site express concern that the end of 15's were a bugger for them. Perhaps this is why?

Thanks again for your feedback Alex. All good here.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Has anyone perhaps set RMs at 90% instead of 100% and realized they could eventually add another lift or two to their routine without burning out?

I have tried setting 5RM to 95% of it for the purposes of getting in some more volume. Unfortunately strength de-adapts fairly quickly, and 95% turned out to be my new 100% before I knew what was going on So I've came up with another idea of doing 2 sets with a new 5RM staying short of failure, and attempting to add one more rep each w/o (either within those 2 sets, or in another set entirely), until I hit a predetermined number of total reps. Some metabolic higher rep work after the heavy sets seems to be helping me with my progress, too. I've also extended my 5RM weeks indefinitely, which seems to be more efficient for people like me who are yet far away from their genetic potential. But an SD and a 2 week long ramp up to working weights might be worthwhile every few months to prevent CNS from burning out, and give muscles some time to decondition.

 

[dempsey]

Just do one set of 15's.

 

[BPM]

Just do one set of 15's.

^ Exactly.

Just did my first 2 weeks of HST, and I had a heck of a time with 15x2 squats. By the time workout 6 came around (my 15 RM) I felt only a little stronger, and I ate more macro/calories than I needed during those 2 weeks.


For squats, I ended up doing only 1 set of 15, and the next set would be as many reps as I could do comfortably.

 

[G8r]

Thanks Guys. Good stuff. I didn't seem to have trouble during the workout in getting the reps, but certainly did feel it the next few days. I've decided to take a few steps to combat the issue. As you recommend, only one set of 15's instead of two. Additionally, I will monitor protein/calorie intake more closely and ensure that I hydrate. I'm bad for not drinking much during the day. I noticed last week that paying attention to my water intake made a difference in how I felt. I'll see how it goes.

Rihad, thanks for the detail on your workout adjustments. That was exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I like your idea on metabolic work and will try that.