Serious problems

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Skinnyfat, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. Skinnyfat

    Skinnyfat New Member

    Last winter and spring I got good progression on three consecutive hst cycles and everything seemed fine. Then without any clear reason I started having trouble with fatigue and the weights felt heavy and I couldn't lift them up explosively like before. I've been eating at least if not more than before and I haven't increased my cardio.

    These problems are quite common for me. Sometimes my results drop a little for no reason. This is very frustrating, because I'm not getting anywhere. I'm still quite weak even though I've trained for almost 3 years.
    I doubt could all this be because of overtraining. I've tried with less volume and my resting pulse is not elevated and I usually sleep very well.

    I'm a 24-year-old young man.

    The problem can't be nutrition. I get enough protein and if I eat any more I just start gaining fat. I've tried that.

    My workout:
    15s 10s 5s 5s
    2 x squat
    2 x barbell bench press (I've also tried dumbell bps)
    1 x bb row
    1 x db row
    1 x straight legged dl
    1 x db overhead press
    1 x lateral raises
    1 x bb bicep curl
    I use 5 kg increments for straight leg deadlifts and squats and 2.5 kg for most of the other ones.

    These apply for 10s and 5s. I have a little less volume in 15s. I have also tried with less and more volume.

    I usually go to failure at the final workouts. Could it be that I have a weak CNS and I should stay something like 2 reps short of failure at the heaviest workouts? Or could it be a thyroid or some other hormonal problem?

    Any suggestions? I'm getting quite desperate.
    Another related thread I posted about this:
    Problems with bench presses
  2. Rain

    Rain New Member

    Just a thought, but a friend of mine developed an allergy to something in regular flour. This haphazardly affected his workouts in a negative way; feeling weak, no spark etc. Once he started to avoid the substances he was allergic to, his problems disappeared.

    Also, you mention that you eat plenty, and enough protein - how about vitamins? You seem to eat plenty, but do you eat well?

    Good luck!

    / R
  3. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert


    Funny name, are you skinny or fat? LOL [​IMG] Just "picking" :D

    Have your blood checked out, full analysis.

    You may have a slight deficiency somewhere, have all the main areas checked, protein levels, the whole shabang!

    In the meantime, check that you take a vitamin B complex, but of relatively good source not some cheap ol' stock.

    Just maybe something that you cannot say normally.

  4. Skinnyfat

    Skinnyfat New Member

    Yep :) I'm skinny, I don't have any muscles, and I'm fat 86 kg 20 % bf :D LOL

    Now that I think of it, I also have some stomach problems. I often have serious gas problems and my stomach is bloated. It's possible I'm allergic to something. I'll have to look in to that.

    I take multivitamin pills plus vitamins c and b. I eat lots of vegetables and some fruit. I eat a spoonfull of cold-pressed rapeseed oil (it has an optimal ratio of omega3s and omega6s) at every meal, except before going to sleep, then I take 2 spoons. I eat no carbs before going to sleep. My carbs consist mainly of oatmeal / dark low GI pasta/ dark rye bread / fruits and other low GI sources. I get little saturated fats from beef, etc. My most common protein source is fatfree quark cheese, but I also eat fish, chicken and beef.

    I get about 3000 kcal / day and I weight 86 kg with about 20 % bf. I know I should diet down, but I have to get my training back on track first [​IMG]
    Thanks for the encouragement :) I'll have my blood checked when I can arrange it.
  5. zoomz

    zoomz New Member

    3000 calories is perfect if your happy with current stats; IMO I would drop 3-500 cals/day. Could be 2 possibilities; maybe longer SD; full 2 weeks of 15's and definitely get some blood work. What % weight increase from cycle to cyle? Very strange that you hit a plateau at end of 3.
  6. Skinnyfat

    Skinnyfat New Member

    Maybe I could drop my calories a little, but if I start seriously cutting up I fear my some of my training poundages will drop, because I'm having trouble maintaining them.

    I've tried 9-14 day SDs and I have a feeling that 12-13 days works the best. I always do full 2 weeks of 15s. In the beginning I used to do them with the same volume as the other blocks, but now I feel it's best to do them with less volume to avoid overtraining and to leave more energy for the heavier more productive workouts.

    Here's one example from my workout:
    Bent over barbell row: (Actually back is my best musclegroup :) )
    15 x 65 kg 10 x 75 kg 5 x 85 kg

    As I mentioned before, last spring I made quite good progression. For example I was able to increase my barbell row 7.5 kg and bench presses 2.5 kg in two hst cycles (about four months)

    Usually I'm not able to add any weight and sometimes the results come down. I started hst over 2 years ago and I made great gains in the first 2 cycles. Then I pretty much stopped gaining. Some of my results are still at the level the were in the beginning or close to it, but some bodyparts have developed a little (back for example). Gains for a bodypart have been 0-5 kg / year :), about 2.5 kg on average I guess.

    Actually I had my serum total testosterone, free testosterone, prolactin and estrogen levels checked about the time I started HST. I remember the doctor said my levels where normal. The only value I remembered afterwards was total test and I researched it on my own. It was a little on the low side, but it could be due to bad eating habits and alcohol consumption. By the way I don't drink any alcohol nowadays.
  7. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    I Think its time for the experts on this one?

    Only thing I can add is this are you concerned about muscle growth or strength. If you really just want to be strong...that extra bodyweight helps so a cutting cycle would not help your weights at all.

    However if you want muscle gains, maybe lets just start over from scratch and say not try to fix the problem, but say start fresh from scratch and make sure new routine and diet doesn't have any problems.

    I would say first thing first...I would SD for 2 weeks, then start with basic compound HST routines. In the meantime lets take a close, close look at your nutrition and try to get that in check...I cant really help you much there beside what you already know, however I think my advice above given to and HST expert let them make you a road map we can get you on the right track!

    I am pulling for you man!
  8. OneMoreRep

    OneMoreRep New Member

    Just a thought, try dropping all the isos for a cycle or two. ;)
  9. Skinnyfat

    Skinnyfat New Member

    I'm not so concerned about strength levels as long as I'm growing.

    If you read my other thread you noticed my bench press has come down 2.5 kg and I've repeated the 5 rep block several times to get my strength levels back. I guess I fear if I let it drop, I wont get it back or it will drop further and if I don't get any progression, I wont grow.

    I think it's no use banging my head against the wall. I'm willing to start fresh from scratch. Could someone give me pointers on what to do.
    I was thinking something like this:

    2 week SD (This long SD sometimes seems to hurt my strength levels)
    My training program above without the bicep curls, lateral raises and dumbell bent over rows.

    Calories? 2500? I would like to slowly cut up without muscle loss.
    Cardio? Currently I'm doing none.
    Other changes? Is it ok to start with little lighter weights, say -2.5 kg? Just to ensure I can get all the required reps in the final workouts.

    I'll also have my blood checked, because I'm a little sceptic can changes in my training program make any difference. I think I've tried almost everything.
  10. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    First I would not panic, I get the feeling you are a little bit. If you SD properly you may loose some strength but nothing that muscle memory want kick back in with soon after restarting training.

    Second I think you are on the right track by dropping all isolation moves, I would stick with just compound moves only for a while. Make sure you are resting 1 to 2 minutes between sets, perhaps you may need to rest up to 3 mins during heavy 5's. Also dont worry with cardio during this next cycle. Dont get me wrong cardio is good for the heart and we all need to do it to stay healthy but it has nothing to do with muscle gains or strength so for the next cycle dont worry with it.

    Also just some other things to concider is expierement with your time that you train, in other words try training in the morning or at night see which schedule feels may be working hard before you ever hit the gym...not sure...these are all just little things I would concider...but dont worry these guys here will get you back on track...and who knows maybe I can help a little too! :D
  11. liegelord

    liegelord New Member

    I would drop the isolations also. I know I mention this a lot, but, I would throw in the regular deadlift and drop the SL. I would drop one of the rows and do chins instead. Are you able to do dips?

    I would also throw away the rapeseed oil and use flaxseed oil.

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