shortening rest periods

J

jwbond

New Member
Before getting into HST I had success with lighter weights and extremely short rest periods for bis and tris.  My arms increased in size like never before.  After reading more on the HST forums I chalked it up to just temperary glycogen, not true lbm gains.

Recently, I had a conversation with Luke Wood, a Pro on another forum.  The conversation made me think maybe short rest periods are best for increasing lbm and increased glycogen. Sounds like a win win if it is true!


Please see below:


Luke:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't go heavy much any more! i do alot of super,drop and giant sets now!

But around my heaviest weight in 2003 i was 135kg.

-Bench 515 for 3 reps,
-Smith machine shoulder press 495 for 6 reps.
-deadlift 630lbs for 2 reps
-Squat 630lbs for 6 reps


I would'nt even attempt this now and i build alot more quality muscle in 2005 and 2006 using half the weight</div>

Me:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Great lifts Luke!

Could you post more about the 2005-2006 routine?

Compounds or isos?
Rep ranges?
Rest periods?
Weight used (% of 1 rep max)


I feel like I am lifting too much for strength,but I want to make adjustments to make my routine more towards bodybuilding!</div>

Luke:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
It would take me forever to post these routines! All the guys i train know my stlye of training now and i will bet anything it shits on heavy weight any day! the intensity is crazy! Anyone can lift a massive weight+wait 3 minutes lift it again, wait 3 minutes lift it again etc!!! We are no powerlifters but bodybuildiers and the judges could care less how much you lift! Try picking 10,15, 20 exercises with no more than 10 seconds rest between them! thats when you grow!

I will challenge ANYONE ANYWHERE to have me take them through a quad workout or back workout for eg my way and have them look me in the eye after it and tell me that was'nt the most intense **** they have ever been through! not the traditional how much i can lift, than sit down and catch my breath and do it again but im talking just going to a point where passing out is a likely option! throwing up is just part of the warmup!</div>

Me:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
I know it would be too much to post the full routine, but could you answer...


1. Besides minimal rest periods, what other changes are implemented?
2. When you jump to the next exercise are you hitting the same muscle groups back to back or alternating?
3. How many sets per exercise?
4. Going to failure? On all sets?


...Sorry to be a pain, but I have been hitting the weights for years and I have always felt that I am doing a routine geared too much towards strength, not growing in size.

I feel like getting solid info in the iron game is near impossible, but clearly the changes you made to your routine are EXACTLY what I am looking for.</div>

Luke:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
For example quads!

Pick 10 exercises of your choice!

do all 10 exercise with no rest! do 10 reps, than 30 reps, 10 reps, than 30 reps (ie every second exercise do 30 reps) until you have done all 10! (you will be spent in 10 minutes, trust me) rest for 3 minutes and than do them all again, rest 3 mins and again until you have done 3 or 4 rounds at least! prefably 5!

You can do this for all muscle groups but its very taxing if you are not eating or resting enough!</div>


I am thinking about giving lighter weights and shorter rest periods a try, but wanted to see what others thought about it first.


So chime in!  
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Is he roiding? If he's a pro I guess he is. You cannot expect to get sound advice from anyone who is on AAS.

Why not give it a try and find out what happens in your case?
 
From Bryan's notes on AAS:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">AAS stimulate satellitte cell activity independently of microtrauma, so neither the &quot;reset&quot; function of SD nor the need to cause microtrauma each and every workout is a necessity to grow.

Testosterone has the following effects on muscle tissue:

* Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)
* Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)
* Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio)
* Enhanced protein synthesis
* Enhanced new myofiber formation

So you can easily see why testosterone is an incredible anabolic hormone in muscle tissue. It tips the scales in every beneficial way towards muscle hypertrophy. </div>
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 17 2008,19:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Holy Crapola Batman!

Needles anyone?</div>
No crap. After reading that, I had to immediately go inject some testosterone into my glutes.

Not really, but it kinda made me wish I could.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Feb. 17 2008,18:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From Bryan's notes on AAS:
AAS stimulate satellitte cell activity independently of microtrauma, so neither the &quot;reset&quot; function of SD nor the need to cause microtrauma each and every workout is a necessity to grow.</div>
For sure, Testosterone is a wonderful thing. However, Bryan's statement about SD is probably only true if you are supplementing to beyond a test level of 800 ng/dl or so. Any level maintained below 800 ng/dl will likely still require some SD although the frequency will depend on the actual T level and the intensity of the program being followed. &quot;Normal&quot; HRT does not get you totally beyond the need to SD...at least that has been my experience.

In any case, who wants to fly at 300 feet when you can fly at 800 feet and be 100% legal? Ain't it strange that 50 years ago my most hated word in the world was &quot;test&quot; and today it is my favorite? Getting older can be a wonderful thing too!
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Click to expand...
 
Actually I was referring more to that routine. Sheesh, I'd have to be a teenager to try that without some recovery enhancement. I'll let JW be the lab rat for this one.
Methinks Leuke is de Fleuke. Back to the fatigue argument.
 
I just checked Luke's site: he is obviously on a lot of gear so it is quite likely that he can now use lower loads/more volume and still grow. I would hazard a guess that he still doesn't understand the roll of fatigue in a natty lifter's training (ie. fatigue does not equal growth). If you like, ask him to stop taking gear and then see how he gets on with his routine.  
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biglukewood
 
hah! Guys, guys, guys...


I guess I should have clarified further. I wouldn't never attempt to do that kind of volume for a natty lifter! I also have no plans to walk around with a soar ass from injecting all the time either. I thought the reduced volume for natty guys like us was implied. (which was dumb of me, as it is always best to clarify as much as possible when it comes to forums)


What I was suggesting is that the shorter rest periods might be in our best interests, not 10 sets. What if we were to do say 3-5 sets @ 10x with 10-20 sec rest periods? Of course our RMs would have to be adjusted, but who cares if it results in bigger muscles?!? Like I said, I had great success when doing so with my arms a couple of years back.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Feb. 18 2008,06:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just checked Luke's site: he is obviously on a lot of gear so it is quite likely that he can now use lower loads/more volume and still grow. I would hazard a guess that he still doesn't understand the roll of fatigue in a natty lifter's training (ie. fatigue does not equal growth). If you like, ask him to stop taking gear and then see how he gets on with his routine.  
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tounge.gif


biglukewood</div>
What.....you think he's on the sauce? No way!
laugh.gif


It certainly can't hurt to do a cycle with reduced rest times and see how it goes. And as the others have mentioned.....take any advice from someone on AAS with a grain of salt.
 
<div>
(Bulldog @ Feb. 18 2008,13:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">take any advice from someone on AAS with a grain of salt.</div>
Or as a lawyer would say:&quot;cum granis salis&quot;...
 
<div>
(Bulldog @ Feb. 18 2008,13:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">take any advice from someone on AAS with a grain of salt.</div>
I always do, that's why I wanted to see what my fellow HSTers experiences were since most here are natural.


So what is the least amount of rest time you guys have used? I usually try to hit 60 secs for every exercise, but may try a 15-30 sec to experiment with.
 
I usually start my rest periods around 30 seconds at the beginning of the 15's and they gradually get longer until I'm resting 2 min. between sets in the second week of 5's. I usually try not to rest any longer than 2 min. Mostly just to keep my workouts as short as I can, but sometimes I will rest as long as 3 min. if I feel I need it due to not sleeping well the night before or something like that.

My personal feeling is that for hypertrophy the rest period doesn't make any difference as long as it doesn't affect you overall workload. But I think if you want to improve your overall fitness level then the shorter rest periods can be beneficial. My opinion only.
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I don't monitor rest periods. If it takes 3 minutes before I have enough strength for my next set, then so what. Fatigue isn't all that important, so I don't see a good reason to minimize rest between sets. There was research suggesting that shorter rest periods increasing HGH. Guess what? It amounts to all of nothing for muscle growth. Just training in general increases HGH anyway.
 
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(Totentanz @ Feb. 17 2008,21:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh yeah. I think I overtrained just from reading his routine.</div>
LOL... I had a dream last night that some guys at a gym were asking me how I put so much muscle on in a few years. I told them that I have been on the roids and HGH. It got a few laughs before I advertised HST to them!

Seriously, I bet the guy is juiced, and such a routine will not work for you.
 
Let us consider the balancing act. If one chooses to remain in the &quot;perfect&quot; 50-minute window, adding rest will lower workload totals, due to the time constraint.
If you shorten the rests, you get more workload in, up to a point, where fatigue takes it's toll and you cannot lift as heavy, or as many reps, lowering your workload again.
Since we're finding out that fatigue is not a necessary function for hypertrophy, I tend to do what it takes to stay fresh, lift hard, and the 50 minute window be damned. It's not that totally critical anyway, even for naturals. It is optimal. I believe it was PS (protein synthesis) that takes a dive after, I think it was about an hour and a half (if I'm wrong I'm sure Aaron is gonna burn me a new one), so I've done many workouts in that longer window.
I had asked a question that hasn't been answered to my satisfaction yet, regarding fatigue work. I supposed that the only advantage to it was for conditioning - but we could get that part from our cardio, no? The other advantage of course is lactic acid and joint repair. That's about all I know so far at this point.
 
For the record, YES it is clear that guy is on the sauce! No doubt...

Great answers Tot and Quad! I think that pretty much satisfies my questions on it...
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 19 2008,09:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Let us consider the balancing act. If one chooses to remain in the &quot;perfect&quot; 50-minute window, adding rest will lower workload totals, due to the time constraint.
If you shorten the rests, you get more workload in, up to a point, where fatigue takes it's toll and you cannot lift as heavy, or as many reps, lowering your workload again.
Since we're finding out that fatigue is not a necessary function for hypertrophy, I tend to do what it takes to stay fresh, lift hard, and the 50 minute window be damned. It's not that totally critical anyway, even for naturals. It is optimal. I believe it was PS (protein synthesis) that takes a dive after, I think it was about an hour and a half (if I'm wrong I'm sure Aaron is gonna burn me a new one), so I've done many workouts in that longer window.
I had asked a question that hasn't been answered to my satisfaction yet, regarding fatigue work. I supposed that the only advantage to it was for conditioning - but we could get that part from our cardio, no? The other advantage of course is lactic acid and joint repair. That's about all I know so far at this point.</div>
Well, supposedly cortisol raises significantly once you get beyond an hour workout... but... if you are accustomed to working out that long, then apparently this doesn't happen anymore. So, I would presume that it is only in relatively untrained or beginners where the whole &quot;less than an hour&quot; workout is important.
Anecdotally, it hasn't made much difference for me either way. When the loads get real heavy, I'm not getting done in less than an hour anyway unless my workout is extremely abbreviated.
 
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