Shoulder Press
- Thread starter mantica
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imported_domineaux
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You can keep your back very straight in the seated press.
It is common to arch your back doing standing presses.
Arching your back can lead to injury, especially if you haven't been steadily training your lower back.
The straighter you can keep your back in exercises the better you'll do at preventing injury to your back.
I'm particularly sensitive about back injuries, because they can force you to stop all training. It's practically impossible to do workarounds when your back is injured.
It is common to arch your back doing standing presses.
Arching your back can lead to injury, especially if you haven't been steadily training your lower back.
The straighter you can keep your back in exercises the better you'll do at preventing injury to your back.
I'm particularly sensitive about back injuries, because they can force you to stop all training. It's practically impossible to do workarounds when your back is injured.
RUSS
Member
<div>
(domineaux @ Sep. 05 2007,18:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You can keep your back very straight in the seated press.
It is common to arch your back doing standing presses.
Arching your back can lead to injury, especially if you haven't been steadily training your lower back.
The straighter you can keep your back in exercises the better you'll do at preventing injury to your back.
I'm particularly sensitive about back injuries, because they can force you to stop all training. It's practically impossible to do workarounds when your back is injured.</div>
"Most people will be able to use more weight seated than standing. Using more weight can lead to more growth stimulation placed on your shoulders. On the downside, the seat decreases the involvement of the core, glutes, and hips.
It's also worth noting that performing the movement seated drastically increases lower back stress by increasing spinal compression. When seated, the lower back is "compressed" directly between the weight and the seat. When you stand, the weight is still there but the downward force is partially "absorbed" by the legs and hips, reducing lower back strain."
- Christian Thibaudeau
I agree with thib , seated = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
(domineaux @ Sep. 05 2007,18:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You can keep your back very straight in the seated press.
It is common to arch your back doing standing presses.
Arching your back can lead to injury, especially if you haven't been steadily training your lower back.
The straighter you can keep your back in exercises the better you'll do at preventing injury to your back.
I'm particularly sensitive about back injuries, because they can force you to stop all training. It's practically impossible to do workarounds when your back is injured.</div>
"Most people will be able to use more weight seated than standing. Using more weight can lead to more growth stimulation placed on your shoulders. On the downside, the seat decreases the involvement of the core, glutes, and hips.
It's also worth noting that performing the movement seated drastically increases lower back stress by increasing spinal compression. When seated, the lower back is "compressed" directly between the weight and the seat. When you stand, the weight is still there but the downward force is partially "absorbed" by the legs and hips, reducing lower back strain."
- Christian Thibaudeau
I agree with thib , seated = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
I
imported_drpierredebs
Guest
<div>
(RUSS @ Sep. 05 2007,21:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree with thib , seated = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
</div>
you mean STANDING = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
I do no weight training exercises seated.
(RUSS @ Sep. 05 2007,21:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree with thib , seated = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
you mean STANDING = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
I do no weight training exercises seated.
RUSS
Member
<div>
(drpierredebs @ Sep. 06 2007,01:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(RUSS @ Sep. 05 2007,21:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree with thib , seated = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
</div>
you mean STANDING = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
I do no weight training exercises seated.</div>
You're right I did mean to say standing - oops
(drpierredebs @ Sep. 06 2007,01:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(RUSS @ Sep. 05 2007,21:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree with thib , seated = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
you mean STANDING = much safer + more "compound" so to speak.
I do no weight training exercises seated.</div>
You're right I did mean to say standing - oops
bgates1654
New Member
I noticed back arch and minor pain when I was doing heavier weights in the OHP a few cycles back. A way to fix it is to concentrate on keeping the abs tight and provide any lean back necessary with the knees. Do it with the light weights and by the time you get to the heavy weights it will become automatic.
Just a thought here, but I know standing is quite unstable for me.
I have to use less weight for that reason.
You might have to adjust to the movement as well as the weight.
It might be good to err on the side of caution until you can perform the movement correctly.
Try as I might, I've never been stable enough to do them standing. It was always very awkward for me
I have to use less weight for that reason.
You might have to adjust to the movement as well as the weight.
It might be good to err on the side of caution until you can perform the movement correctly.
Try as I might, I've never been stable enough to do them standing. It was always very awkward for me
I
imported_domineaux
Guest
RUSS
Watch those doing standing presses. They always bend their torso and their lower back. It is just ineveitable. Maybe if you stood in a Smith or something and could just stand straight and lift it would be better for not compressing the spine.
Most of us... we're going to lift what we can to get off a good workout and we're going to swing those arms up, leaning forward and then swing the weight back and bend your back. Mess with the weight positioning it and then push up the weight. The back is bent almost without exception if the load is heavy.
IMO, a seated military press in a bodymaster or Nautilus machine is a best go. The weight is positioned, you're seated correctly and you don't have to mess with the weight through alot of hard to control movements.
You also have about 300 pound stack as well, so you can go heavy on the exercise.
Watch those doing standing presses. They always bend their torso and their lower back. It is just ineveitable. Maybe if you stood in a Smith or something and could just stand straight and lift it would be better for not compressing the spine.
Most of us... we're going to lift what we can to get off a good workout and we're going to swing those arms up, leaning forward and then swing the weight back and bend your back. Mess with the weight positioning it and then push up the weight. The back is bent almost without exception if the load is heavy.
IMO, a seated military press in a bodymaster or Nautilus machine is a best go. The weight is positioned, you're seated correctly and you don't have to mess with the weight through alot of hard to control movements.
You also have about 300 pound stack as well, so you can go heavy on the exercise.
By keeping the back straight, you of course mean that the lower back should be arched, right? The chest should be forward and shoulders back, right?
Anyway, a standing press isn't meant to go straight up and down. The bar starts in the clean position on your chest and ends up behind your head once it reaches the top. That's more of a diagonal upward line. There really isn't any other way for it to go. Of course if you weren't doing it that way, I could see how the movement could be very unstable. Holding the bar in front of your head at the top would be very unstable, as it would want to fall forward, which would severely limit the weight you can use.
I don't think the problem with people bending their backs is as widespread and you are saying. I've never had the problem, and I'm sure RUSS hasn't, given the amount he is pressing overhead. I'm sure a lot of the guys here haven't had any back problems from standing presses. Even push presses, which require more movement, thus would theoretically give you more of a chance to screw up the form, have never given me back problems.
Obviously, people should limit the weight they use until they can keep good form. If they can't keep good form, then the weight is too heavy.
If you only do seated presses, you are really missing out on a lot of other exercises you can do that involve standing while you press overhead. Push presses, like I already mentioned, are awesome especially for carryover that can help with busting through military press plateaus. Clean and Press is fun, etc etc.
So... rather than give up and only do seated, you should learn how to properly press overhead. After all, do you only leg press because Squats can be dangerous if not done properly? Do you only do leg curls because deadlifts can be dangerous if done improperly? No. You learn how to do them correctly before piling tons of weight onto the bar.
Anyway, a standing press isn't meant to go straight up and down. The bar starts in the clean position on your chest and ends up behind your head once it reaches the top. That's more of a diagonal upward line. There really isn't any other way for it to go. Of course if you weren't doing it that way, I could see how the movement could be very unstable. Holding the bar in front of your head at the top would be very unstable, as it would want to fall forward, which would severely limit the weight you can use.
I don't think the problem with people bending their backs is as widespread and you are saying. I've never had the problem, and I'm sure RUSS hasn't, given the amount he is pressing overhead. I'm sure a lot of the guys here haven't had any back problems from standing presses. Even push presses, which require more movement, thus would theoretically give you more of a chance to screw up the form, have never given me back problems.
Obviously, people should limit the weight they use until they can keep good form. If they can't keep good form, then the weight is too heavy.
If you only do seated presses, you are really missing out on a lot of other exercises you can do that involve standing while you press overhead. Push presses, like I already mentioned, are awesome especially for carryover that can help with busting through military press plateaus. Clean and Press is fun, etc etc.
So... rather than give up and only do seated, you should learn how to properly press overhead. After all, do you only leg press because Squats can be dangerous if not done properly? Do you only do leg curls because deadlifts can be dangerous if done improperly? No. You learn how to do them correctly before piling tons of weight onto the bar.
I thought Lyle's articles were very good.
The one point I can think of adding to this discussion is that when pressing overhead training to failure is your biggest enemy. You are much more likely to injure your back if you are struggling to get one final rep and shaking like a leaf. The only time I have ever had a twinge in my back from pressing is when I have been determined to get one last rep. Thankfully, HST has made training a lot safer for me so I just have to watch it doing presses during RM workouts.
I actually find it easier to hyper-extend my lowerback when seated. So, pressing to failure when seated is even more likely to give me problems.
The one point I can think of adding to this discussion is that when pressing overhead training to failure is your biggest enemy. You are much more likely to injure your back if you are struggling to get one final rep and shaking like a leaf. The only time I have ever had a twinge in my back from pressing is when I have been determined to get one last rep. Thankfully, HST has made training a lot safer for me so I just have to watch it doing presses during RM workouts.
I actually find it easier to hyper-extend my lowerback when seated. So, pressing to failure when seated is even more likely to give me problems.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Reading this, I realize my form sux. I bring the weight down only to my chin. I imagine that in order to do it correctly, I'll have to reduce weight and essentialy start over. It's going to suck to find out that my 5 rm of 125 pounds is probably only 110 or so.
