Small Progression Question

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bgates1654

New Member
I tried searching for an answer to this, but couldnt find anything. I remember reading somewhere that Bryan made the progression quicker than he thought was optimal because he was taking into account the lack of patience of seasoned lifters towards submax progression. I was wondering if he ever mentioned what he thought was optimal. In terms of slowing down progression, is it better to use smaller increments or use longer periods between increments?
 
Progressing the loads every workout is not necessary. You could easily use each load% for 1-2 weeks, and the higher loads probably 4 weeks.

Dan Moore on his Max-stim site has revealed a cycle that lasts 20 weeks, 4 rep ranges:10 rm, 8 rm, 6 rm and 4 rm. Each rep range starts at 80% of rm for a week, then 90% for a week, then 100% for a week, then 110% for two weeks. That is 5 weeks per rep range x 4 rep ranges....20 weeks + the loads are heavy the whole time, and the progression is significant (10% jumps). I and some other Max-stim trainees are trying it including Dan himself. I believe it will be the best training I have ever done. Of course since the loads are extreme, it can only be used with Max-stim or some other fatigue management like clustering.

Somewhere I read something written by Bryan that any particular load can be used to get hypertrophy (as long as the muscle isn't already too conditioned to it) for 2-4 weeks before RBE catches up and then of course progressing the load will allow further hypertrophy.
 
20 weeks? e-gad, what happened to SD??

I did a 12 week HST cycle and I was seriosuly burnt out after week 10, I used max-stim from about week 9.
 
Sci, I don't think the loads are too extreme for the 20 week cycle as long as it is bounded by long SD's and for a bulk. More time devoted to stretching, youth, and supplementation can help. If else, then something like Max-Stim and clustering all worthwhile like you say. It looks like it would be very interesting - anything else involved with it?
 
20 weeks? e-gad, what happened to SD??

SD cant catch up, when the load is constantly progressing
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''I did a 12 week HST cycle and I was seriosuly burnt out after week 10, I used max-stim from about week 9.''

What was your routine?
 
as SM says you dont have to increase the weight every workout,i dont think there are studies on how long RBE lasts but i think it is a lot longer than we think especially in the 5s.

as for larger or smaller increments i beleive smaller are better for strength and larger are better for hypertrophy.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">as for larger or smaller increments i beleive smaller are better for strength and larger are better for hypertrophy. </div>

100% agree

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby, just for you amigo
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Thanks Style, after looking over the cycle it looks like it would be good for both strength and hypertrophy. However, is it too much of a crossover OR is it just better to do a standard HST cycle followed by 5 x 5 SST? I mean, the strength gains within the 20 week Max-Stim cycle go up to 110% where as 5 x 5 is definitely higher no matter who the individual is. Also, wouldn't the slow progression stifle hypertrophy a bit?
 
I believe there was a discussion before about RBE catching up quicker when the loads are lighter. Opposingly, it takes longer for RBE to catch up when the weight is heavier. I am assuming this means from the same relative point of RBE conditioning to the stress on the muscle. i.e. The muscle used to 135lbs and will catch up to 145lbs quicker than if it were 225 to 235. If this is the case would it be better to say increment every workout during the 5s, every 2 during the 10s, every 3 during the 5s, and 4+ for negs?

Anyone else agree that smaller increments are for strength, while larger increments are for hypertrophy? If this is so I think I need to do smaller increments. I am definitely bigger than some of the guys at the gym, but they are benching 40+lbs more than me. Of course, benching is pretty much all they do...
 
Sorry I shouldn't have said SD, I meant recovery, 20 weeks of ever increasing weights as got to be hard as hell to maintain, when I did the 12 weeks it was with zigzag, so every 2nd week was easy (relatively), and that's what kept me going and my joints from exploding.

The traditional recommendation for rest is 1 week every 6 weeks, HST is 1-2 weeks every 8 weeks, Max-stim I think is every 12 weeks, but 20 weeks with no rest?

I repeat, e-gad!
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jan. 10 2007,12:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">as for larger or smaller increments i beleive smaller are better for strength and larger are better for hypertrophy. </div>

100% agree

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby, just for you amigo  
biggrin.gif
 </div>

Thanks Style, after looking over the cycle it looks like it would be good for both strength and hypertrophy.  However, is it too much of a crossover OR is it just better to do a standard HST cycle followed by 5 x 5 SST?  I mean, the strength gains within the 20 week Max-Stim cycle go up to 110% where as 5 x 5 is definitely higher no matter who the individual is.  Also, wouldn't the slow progression stifle hypertrophy a bit?</div>
First of all, the progression in the Max-stim 20 week cycle is not slow, once/week increases are plenty ahead of RBE, hypertrophy should occur throughout the entire cycle. Second of all, I think you may have mis-read the progression..the load ranges from week 1 being 80% of 10 rm.....to week 20 being 110% of 4rm!!!
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I don't know about you, but for me using 110% of my current 4 rm in 18 weeks and doing 20 reps with that load is really frickin' heavy....even heavier than 5x5. 110% of 4rm is basically my 1 rep max.... so if thing go well, I will be doing 20 reps with my current 1 rm, that is totally awesome. I imagine I will hypertrophy more on this routine than most basic HST routines for several reasons.
1)Higher overall loads.
2)Longer cycle of progression. (the body can hypertrophy alot more in 20 weeks than it can in 8 weeks)
3)managing fatigue to allow higher total work output at the higher loads.

For me Max-stim is basically a 'pimped up' version of HST!
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(Peak_Power @ Jan. 10 2007,16:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sorry I shouldn't have said SD, I meant recovery, 20 weeks of ever increasing weights as got to be hard as hell to maintain, when I did the 12 weeks it was with zigzag, so every 2nd week was easy (relatively), and that's what kept me going and my joints from exploding.

The traditional recommendation for rest is 1 week every 6 weeks, HST is 1-2 weeks every 8 weeks, Max-stim I think is every 12 weeks, but 20 weeks with no rest?

I repeat, e-gad!</div>
Undulating Progression....zig-zag is built into the cycle.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Jan. 10 2007,23:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">..the load ranges from week 1 being 80% of 10 rm.....to week 20 being 110% of 4rm!!!
wow.gif
  I don't know about you, but for me using 110% of my current 4 rm in 18 weeks and doing 20 reps with that load is really frickin' heavy....even heavier than 5x5.  110% of 4rm is basically my 1 rep max.... so if thing go well, I will be doing 20 reps with my current 1 rm, that is totally awesome.</div>
Sci, if you manage to dead and squat 20 reps with 110% of your 4RM in less than an hour I'll take a bow and doff my cap in your general direction!  
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> using 110% of my current 4 rm in 18 weeks and doing 20 reps with that load </div>

I think I can get that strong in 18 weeks, (currently finishing week 2) but we'll see!
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