split routine

F

faz

Active Member
i have never done a split where you train one bodypart in one day,i wondered how doing all them exercises for one body part would feel,so last wk i tried a day on chest.

most routines i have checked out do around 4 exercises per bodypart.

i usually do dips and incline-bench in my workout anyway but have a horizontal pull and a vertical pull inbetween them,so i used these plus flat-bench and flyes,

i did 3 sets of 10 dips,3 sets of 10 inclines,and TBH my pecs were fried i only just about got my 3rd set of inclines done,i could have carried on but TBH the rest inbetween sets would have been so long i would have spent more time sitting around the gym than training,now i know why these guys spend more time talking than training
wink.gif
.

also after the 6 sets i had done,surely i must have stimulated the fibres enough to grow,and doing 6 more would just be burning calories,what do you guys reckon,have any of you tried that type of training before.

BTW i have done most routines including splits but always using opposing muscles.
 
You have to consider what changes you are making from HST. It's obviously not going to be 3x/week, so you can hit it harder, but ...there are limits of your strengths and conditioning too. Depending on what you came to it from, you'll have a weaker start and lesser volume than you'll be able to do later on, so progression is still available and necessary.
I use it now to keep gains while working long hours and cutting...but I just split 3 ways, aka "SimplifyandWin" methodology. Chest, Back, Legs. I alternate squats and deads but keep the chest and back the same.
Fazzer, doing what you did, I'd expect the same results. Fried well enough!
Years ago I did a one-bp-per-day scheme on a 7-day rotation, but it seemed that the workouts were so far apart for any muscle that I didn't grow on it. But it could have been that back then I just wasn't eating enough.
 
TBH quadman i wasnt going to use it i just wanted to feel what it was like,i had always thought that the latter part of a workout like that would just be coasting and i was right,unless i had massive rests inbetween sets,which would bore me.
 
What quad said; it depends on where you are coming from. If you keep doing this eventually your exercise endurance will build up and you will be able to complete your workout without feeling totally wasted.

But you will still need lots of time when using max loads. This is why pyramids, drop sets etc. are often employed; to shorten it somewhat. After all, the main idea here is to completely exhaust the muscle more than anything else.
rock.gif


In my opinion, you can only use your true max for 2-3 sets at best. After that, you can still go to failure, but it won't really be a true max; just what you can handle after a certain amount of fatigue has settled in.

But, as I said, the purpose usually is to utterly exhaust the muscle, so that after you are done you will barely be able to move it. This is why many times load is sacrificed for the sake of volume...
 
after doing hst for so long its nice to go back to a split.doing higher volume training takes it out of you but has its own rewards.

what ever makes you grow!
 
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(lcars @ Apr. 21 2008,3:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">after doing hst for so long its nice to go back to a split.doing higher volume training takes it out of you but has its own rewards.

what ever makes you grow!</div>
yes icars but is doing a bodypart a wk split were you cant really use your maxes on the latter part of your workout,and only fatigue your muscles,going to make you grow.
 
one thing training with high volume does is increase your stamina by huge amounts,so once you are seasoned to it,you can lift almost to your full potential on every lift.without burning out too much.

for example my max lift for 15 reps on incline dumbell is 220lb(110lbx2).wether i do this for my first exercise or my last i aim to make 15 on at least one of the sets.so i dont think it causes a problem.

as far as &quot;do you grow?&quot; ...well id ask the hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders who use this method of training.and the answer would be yes.if i didnt grow i wouldnt use it.

hst is without a doubt an efficient way of training,but i find it falls short durin the submax phase.this is where you need to take its principles and tweek them.


i admit a standard split can be inefficient also, so again you need to tweak the program alittle.to optimise it. all in all you need to train using an asortment of training programs because i garrantee you, you will stall out eventually.
 
im not doubting splits work i have used them before,but chest/back etc that way you are working opposing muscles,and each is getting a rest,and you work each bodypart twice a wk,
 
wait a minute, I thought the consensus (sp?) on this forum was that HST was more efficient than split-type routines. I don't need to say this (because y'all know it) but HST is based on the principle that chronic loading is better than once a week assaults on a muscle group. Why do a system of training which is inferior???
 
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(wannagrow @ Apr. 22 2008,7:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">wait a minute, I thought the consensus (sp?) on this forum was that HST was more efficient than split-type routines. I don't need to say this (because y'all know it) but HST is based on the principle that chronic loading is better than once a week assaults on a muscle group. Why do a system of training which is inferior???</div>
we are discussing it not doing it,but splits can be used in HST just not one bodypart a wk splits.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> we are discussing it not doing it,but splits can be used in HST just not one bodypart a wk splits. </div>

but in the first post of this thread you talked about actually doing a &quot;chest&quot; workout.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">so last wk i tried a day on chest </div>
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i have never done a split where you train one bodypart in one day,i wondered how doing all them exercises for one body part would feel,so last wk i tried a day on chest.</div>

i was bored
biggrin.gif
 
wannagrow, it seems there comes a point in your training career (due to conditioning to exercise) when, in order to do enough work in the 'here and now' to trigger a decent PS response, you need to do a fair bit of volume for each bodypart, each session. This leads to longer workouts and as the loads get heavier, the strain on your CNS increases and fatigue builds. If you then also try to keep frequency high and work each bodypart 3 x weekly you end up burnt out and all washed up! So, dropping to 2 x weekly frequency per bodypart and doing a split routine where you work out 4 x weekly gets the job done while managing fatigue build up a little better.

Frequency may not be optimised this way but you need to trigger a PS response in a muscle or you aren't going to grow no matter how many times a week you hit it. Better to trigger some growth twice a week than not at all. Make sense?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Frequency may not be optimised this way but you need to trigger a PS response in a muscle or you aren't going to grow no matter how many times a week you hit it. Better to trigger some growth twice a week than not at all. Make sense? </div>
Wise words... Excellent post by Lol, as always.

You may find at some point that 1 or 2 sets might not be enough to trigger a response, depending of course on the conditioning of the muscle. So what do you do then? Keep on repeating the same (ineffective) workout 3x a week?

If you have enough time to train (and eat) so that you can increase the volume and maintain the 3x per week frequency, then by all means go for it. I believe this is how Bryan and other advanced guys train (6x a week with a 2-way split or 3x a week twice a day). Unfortunately, this is not possible for some of us (due to work or other personal matters), so we need to adjust our routine.

Don't get me wrong, we are all about frequency here. Personally I train 3x weekly, but I come back after a layoff of several months (yes, work-related reasons), so I hope I am deconditioned enough for my workouts to have a positive effect.
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But if a routine does not work for you, you have to &quot;tweak&quot; it to suit your needs (lifestyle), while staying as true as you can to the known principles of hypertrophy.

Hope this helps,
Dimitris
 
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(Lol @ Apr. 23 2008,12:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">wannagrow, it seems there comes a point in your training career (due to conditioning to exercise) when, in order to do enough work in the 'here and now' to trigger a decent PS response, you need to do a fair bit of volume for each bodypart, each session. This leads to longer workouts and as the loads get heavier, the strain on your CNS increases and fatigue builds. If you then also try to keep frequency high and work each bodypart 3 x weekly you end up burnt out and all washed up! So, dropping to 2 x weekly frequency per bodypart and doing a split routine where you work out 4 x weekly gets the job done while managing fatigue build up a little better.

Frequency may not be optimised this way but you need to trigger a PS response in a muscle or you aren't going to grow no matter how many times a week you hit it. Better to trigger some growth twice a week than not at all. Make sense?</div>
Lol, I can understand where you're coming from but even if you split up and train 4 times weekly you're still, in theory, putting a tremendous stress on your CNS regardless of the fact that you're training different muscles on different days. The fact that there is so much volume each workout inevitably means that you're going to burn out, well at least I know I will since I'm a beginner.

I imagine that even if you're advanced and the low volume that HST reccommends becomes insufficiant for you to trigger real growth then you can still stick to the principles by simply SDing for longer to decondition yourself, since the problem arises when you're too conditioned- no need to drop the frequency.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> The fact that there is so much volume each workout inevitably means that you're going to burn out,</div>

no because HST starts at submax and works up,fatigue managment is built in.
 
I bump to Icars for what I've been saying forever: any program, including HST will stall out because we are so dang adaptable. Change is good, once you've worked something into the ground, and longer SD's aren't the answer BECAUSE of the time off of training is increased.
We're kind of like the fly trying to get out of the window he can't see. He hits it time and again and after a while rests on the windowsill (SD)...then he gets up and hits it again. Eventually he finds another way out or keeps hitting the same window and dies. (Program stall?) One or the other.
I've even seen success (as I'm now doing) with progressing down to PL style training with very low volume, but very heavy weights.
 
the difference between HST and other styles of training is its adaptable,because its a set of principals not a workout,so if you stall out on a
3x a wk fullbody you can do a
6x a wk fullbody
a push pull split 6 x a wk
a 3 bodypart split 6x a wk
twice a day training
etc.
 
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(wannagrow @ Apr. 23 2008,4:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Apr. 23 2008,12:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">wannagrow, it seems there comes a point in your training career (due to conditioning to exercise) when, in order to do enough work in the 'here and now' to trigger a decent PS response, you need to do a fair bit of volume for each bodypart, each session. This leads to longer workouts and as the loads get heavier, the strain on your CNS increases and fatigue builds. If you then also try to keep frequency high and work each bodypart 3 x weekly you end up burnt out and all washed up! So, dropping to 2 x weekly frequency per bodypart and doing a split routine where you work out 4 x weekly gets the job done while managing fatigue build up a little better.

Frequency may not be optimised this way but you need to trigger a PS response in a muscle or you aren't going to grow no matter how many times a week you hit it. Better to trigger some growth twice a week than not at all. Make sense?</div>
Lol, I can understand where you're coming from but even if you split up and train 4 times weekly you're still, in theory, putting a tremendous stress on your CNS regardless of the fact that you're training different muscles on different days. The fact that there is so much volume each workout inevitably means that you're going to burn out, well at least I know I will since I'm a beginner.

I imagine that even if you're advanced and the low volume that HST reccommends becomes insufficiant for you to trigger real growth then you can still stick to the principles by simply SDing for longer to decondition yourself, since the problem arises when you're too conditioned- no need to drop the frequency.</div>
@lol excellent post, we are on the same page!


@wannagrow, a seasoned lifter would have enough experience to manage fatigue.by adjusting the volume and frequency balance, a decent ps repsonse can be attained.

i feel 2x per week is enough frequency to maintain most hst principles. once the frequency has been lowered you can add the extra volume.

3x per week is better than one imo.but in the end this is not sufficient to keep a ps response going. regardless of sd you can become acclimated to any routine.so a change is neccessary.
 
<div>
(faz @ Apr. 23 2008,7:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the difference between HST and other styles of training is its adaptable,because its a set of principals not a workout,so if you stall out on a
3x a wk fullbody you can do a
6x a wk fullbody
a push pull split 6 x a wk
a 3 bodypart split 6x a wk
twice a day training
etc.</div>
i love the gym dont get me wrong but 6 times a week would be way too much for me,wether i adjust the volume or not.i like putting 100% into my workouts and at 6x per week id burn out.i also dont have a gym in the basement which would mean taking up alot of time i dont have.
 
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