Steroids question

J

Joe.Muscle

Active Member
I have a question that some of you may not the answer to.

I have never done steroids but I know many people who have and obviously as you can imagine they have had great results.

Here is my question and bare with me if I mess up the science side of it.

I have always wondered what type effect ROIDS have on your muscle mass for long periods of time.

In other words when you work out NATURALLY and gain muscle you gain lean muscle tissue. Now as long as your keep your protien somewhat adequatly and you work out enough for maintenance you keep the majority of that muscle of years and years, given you keep working out.

Now lets look at the example of a guy who does steroids.

The drugs I assume help you put on muscle way faster than normal. ( I have read were 1 month of steroids is equal to 12 months natural lifting.)

So you take steroids just say for 1 to 2 cycle and gain about 25 pounds of RAW muscle.

Why is it that the body when you get off of ROIDS does not keep this muscle mass. I mean you lifted weights...and I am guessing hyperplasia or whatever it is called between the cell in your body along with protein and etc...helped build the brand new muscle.

Now given ROIDS speeds up the muscle building process my light years...so I would understand why when one person gets off of roids there muscle building would slow down to a natural lifter level.

But why is it that all of the NEW MUSCLE mass that you gain from roids is not kept forever.

Is it fake muscle?

Water retention?....etc....

I mean I would think in a perfect world an athele could do a cycle or two.

By doing this put on the muscle that he needed and then just take in the proper amount of protein and the proper amount of training (maintenance) and keep it forever?

Does this make sense?
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Oct. 25 2008,11:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But why is it that all of the NEW MUSCLE mass that you gain from roids is not kept forever.

Is it fake muscle?</div>
No it's not fake muscle and if you are looking for a scientific answer then I will say bla bla bla satellite cells bla bla bla protein synthesis bla bla bla proliferation bla bla bla differentiation.

But much simpler.....You will keep some of, in fact a good portion as long as you continue subjecting the tissue to loads that keep PS elevated.

Even if you quit lifting entirely, you wouldn't shrink overnight. This is seen with users and non users who have trained for any length of time then simply quit.
 
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(Dan Moore @ Oct. 25 2008,6:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But much simpler.....You will keep some of, in fact a good portion as long as you continue subjecting the tissue to loads that keep PS elevated.

Even if you quit lifting entirely, you wouldn't shrink overnight. This is seen with users and non users who have trained for any length of time then simply quit.

Just out of curiousity what makes you only keep some of it?

Reason I ask is say...again the steroids speeds up the growth and recovery process, which = Bigger quicker....WAY quicker.

But if you were to come off of the JUICE forever and then say lift MAX-STIM style or any style were you are getting max MU recruitment (6 to 8 rep range) then why would you NOT keep it?

I guess there may not be an answer to this question...but in my mind if its no FAKE muscle and its not as you stated its muscle so I would think muscle is muscle and as long as it activated at maitenance or slightly above and calories are maitenance then you would keep it.

Obviously this doesnot happen in real life b/c I have seen it many times over friends lose 90% of it.

Now given I am sure they were not doing everything else right but for what ever reason the pro's can't even keep a lot of that muscle mass.

Dont waste any time on this Dan ( I apprecaite your input) I just didn't know if there was an easy answer!

Thanks</div>
Just out of curiousity what makes you only keep some of it?

Reason I ask is say...again the steroids speeds up the growth and recovery process, which = Bigger quicker....WAY quicker.

But if you were to come off of the JUICE forever and then say lift MAX-STIM style or any style were you are getting max MU recruitment (6 to 8 rep range) then why would you NOT keep it?

I guess there may not be an answer to this question...but in my mind if its no FAKE muscle and its not as you stated its muscle so I would think muscle is muscle and as long as it activated at maitenance or slightly above and calories are maitenance then you would keep it.

Obviously this doesnot happen in real life b/c I have seen it many times over friends lose 90% of it.

Now given I am sure they were not doing everything else right but for what ever reason the pro's can't even keep a lot of that muscle mass.

Dont waste any time on this Dan ( I apprecaite your input) I just didn't know if there was an easy answer!

Thanks
 
ok joe let me try, with out getting too scientific.

the thing about steroids is, many of them through aromatization cause you to basically hold water, also there is a huge increase in nitrogen retention within the muscles which is used in the muscle building process, this is responsible for most of the weight increases while using.

obviously some of the water and nitrogen excess in the muscles is lost when one stops taking the drugs, hence the weight loss/size loss.


theres also the fact that many steroid users are way above their natural limits as far as muscle mass is concerned. so when the drugs are discontinued altogether they will more than likely return to a size/mass that their body can hold onto.take a look at kevin leverone for example. its part of the bodys process to restore balence.


if you were a natural trainer and decide to do a couple of cycles then more than likely you would not be above your &quot;natural limit&quot; . so with proper diet and training you would be able to keep the mass youve gained.
 
hanging onto the gains youve made comes down to ,but not limited to, a number of factors . testosterone levels(to an extent), diet, rest and as dan stated above, training hard enough to keep an elevated ps response.
 
A given amount of hormones maintain a given amount of muscle. As soon as you stop steroids you can maintain a smaller amount of muscle ( your maximum genetic potential ), because your level of hormone is lower.

There's no way around it, it is impossible for someone to maitain more than his genetic potential naturaly.
 
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Oct. 25 2008,7:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just out of curiousity what makes you only keep some of it?

Reason I ask is say...again the steroids speeds up the growth and recovery process, which = Bigger quicker....WAY quicker.

But if you were to come off of the JUICE forever and then say lift MAX-STIM style or any style were you are getting max MU recruitment (6 to 8 rep range) then why would you NOT keep it?</div>
Not wasting anytime Joe,

You just need to understand how steriods work, they aren't magic, and they don't build fake muscle.

In essence what steroids do is increase the muscle cells efficiency in the protein synthesis process by not only increasing the translational process but also decreasing the turnover process (catabolic) in other words they aide in not only building tissue but also aide in keeping tissue, as long as the juice is there and in sufficient amounts.

As mentioned by Lcars and HDD, once you go off the juice the bodies ability to maintain this elevated level of PS is diminished as is it's ability to keep all the gains made (increased catabolism through naturally occurring turnover). But this isn't saying you will lose all of it. Yes, you will lose some and IMO this is unavoidable, even if lifting correctly and consistently, but not all.

Also what still isn't known (conclusively) is does hyperplasia occur in humans? If it does and long time juicing and the growth that corresponds with long time use is an effect then these new tissues (fibers) will not merely disapear when the juice is stopped. They absolutely will shrink in CSA but they will still remain. This alone would impact whole muscle volume even when off the juice
 
Cool,

Thanks Dan...I have never done them and never will...unless the doctor prescribes them.

I say this not because I am against them...but I know how I am ....I would most likely swell up and look better than ever and then when I lost the gains it would **** with me mentally so that reason there I will never do them.

Not to mention they are ILEGGAL.

However I watch the movie Bigger,Stronger and Faster about 2 or 3 weeks ago and man that was an AWESOME movie / documentary around steroids.

It was IMO a very neutral position on them and its amazing how much bad press these things get.

Especially how useful they are in the medical community when properly prescribed!

You guys check it out if you get chance!

biggerstrongerfastermovie.com

www.biggerstrongerfastermovie.com
 
I just watched Bigger, Stronger, Faster the other day. I also thought it was a very well done documentary. Definitely worth watching if you haven't seen it yet.
 
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