Struggling with bench

[Fausto]

Hi

I have taken on a new convert, and set him up, with the same program as mine, albeit with weights that he will be able to crank.

Unfortunately with the bench, we using two varieties the 45 degree followed by the flat 1 set each, on 10's at the moment.

This chap however is unable to perform a proper bench, and almost never reaches his required rep range.

I am quite concerned with his technique which falters on the 5th rep or so, and I am talking about real low lods (45 Kg) for 10's concerning his size and all.

I suggested we drop the bench altoghether and I am going to let him do lots of shoulder exercises as well as either flyes or peckdecks so as to develop his upper body strength.

What his the general take you guys?

 

[imported_daxie]

Do you mean his form is just lousy? Or do you mean he just doesn't make it?

Either way, probably the flies or pec deck are good for the pecs, but won't help his benching in the future...

My suggestion is not to drop the benches, but instead change them by dumbell presses. DB Presses need a lot more stabilizing muscles to aid in, euh, stabilizing. That should make him able to get out the reps, and get stronger in the areas supporting a regular bench.

And with bench press, I have found it very strange, I know a lot of people (including myself) who are pretty strong in incline benches and in dumbell presses, but who totally suck in regular flat benches. It's been more than a year since I benched, and I can't say I feel that I'm missing out on something

daxy

 

[Fausto]

Daxie, Thanks

Quote[/b] ]Do you mean his form is just lousy? Or do you mean he just doesn't make it?

Both actually!

Quote[/b] ]Either way, probably the flies or pec deck are good for the pecs, but won't help his benching in the future....

Thus the reason why I want to put him on

Quote[/b] ]My suggestion is not to drop the benches, but instead change them by dumbell presses. DB Presses need a lot more stabilizing muscles to aid in, euh, stabilizing.

I also thought of that, just wanted to see other opinions, even though he said to me he does not really like DB's, my answer often what you don't like is exactly what you need

 

[Aaron_F]

get him using very submaximal loads (bar or just a stick if need be) for very high reps.

To utterly learn the correct movemnet path.

If he is a noob, he should not be going anywhere near maximum loads at any rep ranges

 

[Fausto]

I think by now he realizes how technical one can be!

But dang, it is a must if one is to get anywhere with weight training that is that!

Thanks Aaron

Quote[/b] ]get him using very submaximal loads (bar or just a stick if need be) for very high reps.

Are you saying this will improve his technique or strength or both?

Well I must be at fault for not having him check his maximums as I should have, although we did do a few sessions where he showed the capability

, unfortunatelly as I see it now we will have to cut th eloads quite a bit.

My take, he will do at least one set of d/b presses, at an incline, with 15 Kg for 10 reps, or should I go for 10 Kg 15 reps rather, then put in a second set for flat bench and 1 of peck decks?

The man seriously needs to improve the shoulder/chest area so that he can aim to do a proper bench by the 3rd cycle that is 2x8 weeks + at least 1 week SD x 2, enough time as far as I am concerned!

I and he will have to be patient.

Quote[/b] ]If he is a noob

He grew up in a house where is father and eldest brother were way into their weights, he just had a biiiiiiig SD, a couple of years

 

[Tcup]

With that kind of SD i think the gains your friend `s gonna have are huge

But

for making another true believer

 

[faz]

why not try him on some dips or weighted press ups

 

[Fausto]

I wish I had a dip station, still going to try the one I saw on this other thread, made up of plumbing pipes, engenious and it will definitely work.

Chairs are just a way of hurting yourself or breaking the chairs

Weighted push-ups, hmmmmmm....not a bad idea...this poor guy will think I am nuts

Gotta get him out of the "stuck" area.

Keep it coming guys...Keep it coming

 

[imported_daxie]

Shouting "Shut up and lift, bitch" is often regarded as a useful tip (if you can believe the pro movies that is)

Aaron's suggestions is mainly for form I suppose.
Just let him build up to it Fausto, don't rush things. He'll build up strength in the supporting muscles, and his bench will improve with it. Just keep it in there to get the form right. It's an exercise a lot of beginners struggle with, cause they have problems balancing the weight.

I remember my very first day of weight training. I was struggling to lift the olympic bar 10 times... (Yes, that is only 20kg, lifting it 1x10) those were the days

 

[Joe G]

Fausto,

Is your friend really you? It's ok if it is we still want to help out. LOL

Joe G

 

[Totentanz]

The dip station in that one thread works real well. I'm using something very similar to that. Doing dips might be easier for him, depending... I would do as others have said though and have him continue practicing the bench.

 

[Fausto]

Joe G

Quote[/b] ]Is your friend really you?

Very funny, Joe, no it is not.

If you knew me you would know that I don't need this type of antics

I can honestly say my bench is fine.

I can bench 100 Kg for 3 - 5, proved it a couple of times too  

And...no...I don't take it personally, I actually find it very funny  

since I have been round for a while.

I can actually understand why some guys would write in the third person instead, for fear of being put to shame!

Yet, I know HST is not that type of website at all, no one here puts anyone else to shame, regardless of difficulties so why hide?

Genuine...it is a friend whom I am trying to get some positive results for, and think he will soon do, I just have to be patient, I guess

And thanks to all for valuable contributions you guys

much obliged really

 

[jvroig]

Hey Fausto,

Bwahahahaha

(Oh, nothing, I'm still just laughing at Joe G's joke. Nice one Joe!!

)

Fausto, after so many years of non-training, that's not SD anymore. That's just plain bad.

Treat him like he hasn't lifted a weight. Erase everything and start again by finding out his maxes for real this time.

Of course, work on his form. Show him how it's done, coach him. Don't be a backseat driver though, that's just annoying.

Regards,
-JV

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Sep. 01 2005,10:15)]Are you saying this will improve his technique or strength or both?

Technique, not strength. Most of the gains intially are neural nad the best thing is when learning a new movemnt is practice it over and over and over and ovef and over with weights that will not cause fatigue (which will alter technique)

Quote[/b] ]Well I must be at fault for not having him check his maximums as I should have, although we did do a few sessions where he showed the capability

, unfortunatelly as I see it now we will have to cut th eloads quite a bit.

In general its not the best to get a noob to test maximums. You can get away with it sometimes, but most of the times not.

Quote[/b] ]I and he will have to be patient.

Best thing. I would get him to use minimum number of exercises, trying to learn lots of things at once can be difficult for some... one guy I used to train was like a blob of jelly, and as soon as he got fatigued he would dump the bar on his big round belly..

Quote[/b] ]He grew up in a house where is father and eldest brother were way into their weights, he just had a biiiiiiig SD, a couple of years

somepeople are just slow at learning new movements. Some people I know can do it in a day, others a week or two. If I drop benching for a few weeks (2+), my ability to put the bar where its needed drops majorly, so I cant use the same loads.

 

[Fausto]

Batman

Quote[/b] ]Bwahahahaha (Oh, nothing, I'm still just laughing at Joe G's joke. Nice one Joe!&#33

Yah, cool one, but definetely not me! He could have been right though! Anyway, I did not mind that much

As for the convert, I took Aarons advice, or almost and dropped his bar to 30 Kgs, aha...he managed to crank them out, and with a whole lot better form.

Aaaron

Quote[/b] ] the best thing is when learning a new movement is practice it over and over and over and over and over with weights that will not cause fatigue

It is not that it is a new movement, but after all that time, his body probably thinks so, and that is what I told him, well it shows, once we dropped the weight.

Cool...guys.