Summation effects ?

[Fatpanda]

Hi everyone, i am newly registered here, but have used HST vanilla with great success in the past. However after a few cycles i was silly and changed a few things thinking i could handle more volume, which left me badly burnt out, thankfully i have seen the light once more and am back.

i have searched the forum and read as much as i could to catch up on any recent findings, but it all seems pretty much the same however i still have a few new questions regarding HST.

specifically regarding the summation effects talked about in the main article by bryan.

bryan has spoken about summation effects of high frequency loading:

research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed.

he also talks about a study where a rats calf was cut placing constant load on the opposing muscle causing tremendous growth.

so my questions are :

1. Would 1 full body workout everyday not be more beneficial for hypertrophy than 3x week as laid out in the vanilla hst? due to greater summation effect ?

i realise RBE would become a factor, as would fatigue - but in theory would everyday workouts be more beneficial from a purely hypertrophy quest?

I have read some people here perform 6x week workout etc but it is not clear how they set it up, i.e. how often do they increment the weight ? every workout like in vanilla hst ? or some other amount ? etc it is also not clear how they perform the blocks of 15/10/5 etc 2 weeks or 1 week each block?

if any of you regulars could shed some light on these questions i would be very greatfull.

2. also what are the thoughts on lifting solely in 1 rep range throughout the cycle i.e. 6-8 reps and keeping frequency high and increasing reps every workout untill RBE hits, then SD and start again at the bottom of the weight level ?

i know some here think there is no need for 15's if you do not feel injuries coming on etc.

i read one of bryans first hst articles on think muscle where he gives the example workout using the rep range of 6-8, but he also advises via vanilla hst the use of 15-10-5's- is there any greater benefit using the 3 specific ranges except the lactic acid/tendon healing effects of the 15's

i welcome any thoughts you have.

thank you.

 

[grunt11]

1. Would 1 full body workout everyday not be more beneficial for hypertrophy than 3x week as laid out in the vanilla hst? due to greater summation effect ?

i realise RBE would become a factor, as would fatigue - but in theory would everyday workouts be more beneficial from a purely hypertrophy quest?

I have read some people here perform 6x week workout etc but it is not clear how they set it up, i.e. how often do they increment the weight ? every workout like in vanilla hst ? or some other amount ? etc it is also not clear how they perform the blocks of 15/10/5 etc 2 weeks or 1 week each block?

if any of you regulars could shed some light on these questions i would be very greatfull.

I’ve been working out 6 days a week with great results in my first cycle. I’ve done it by keeping things very simple. Each day I do leg exercise, a push exercise and a pull exercise for no more than about 20 reps each. I’m seeing better results doing this at age 50 than I did doing each body part once a week at age 35. Though I was from an upper body standpoint relatively de-conditioned from not lifting for 15 years.

Initially the reason I settled on a 6 day/week routine was that I need to exercise every day for stress relief but it turned out at least for me that it worked great both for muscle and strength gains. Note that I also paid very special attention to maintaining my nutrition. Also, I work out at home so I don’t have to contend with going to the gym or waiting for equipment. I can also optimize my time by setting up to superset antagonistic exercises.

One of the biggest benefits I found in splitting my workouts up over 6 days was that each day volume was very low allowing me to focus more on each rep to get the most out of them.

Note that I was sore every day. Especially when I woke up in the morning. But I worked out an hour and a half after getting up and for the rest of the day I only felt an overall tightness in my muscles. Usually I didn’t hurt again until I woke up in the middle of the night.

I am now into my second full day of SD and my shoulders, triceps and glutes are still sore, but those are also the places I think I made the most gains.

Also note that I was already use to intense daily exercise by the way of running 10-12 miles a day. So I had already established a nutrition regime that could cope with it.

2. also what are the thoughts on lifting solely in 1 rep range throughout the cycle i.e. 6-8 reps and keeping frequency high and increasing reps every workout untill RBE hits, then SD and start again at the bottom of the weight level ?

i know some here think there is no need for 15's if you do not feel injuries coming on etc.

i read one of bryans first hst articles on think muscle where he gives the example workout using the rep range of 6-8, but he also advises via vanilla hst the use of 15-10-5's- is there any greater benefit using the 3 specific ranges except the lactic acid/tendon healing effects of the 15's

I think that the 15s are very important if you are just starting out or restarting from a very intense previous cycle. I only did one week of 15s, being impatient, and strained a muscle in my thigh doing Dead Lifts during the 10s requiring a 2 week layoff from Dead Lifts and Squats. So IMO skip them at your own risk.

 

[Fatpanda]

thanks for your reply.

the reason for my asking about sticking to the same rep range is simply that i tore rotators before while working in the 5 rep range. that rep range always gave me sore joints too no matter how many warm ups etc but i ignored it until i paid the price.

 

[whistledixie]

I have read some people here perform 6x week workout etc but it is not clear how they set it up, i.e. how often do they increment the weight ? every workout like in vanilla hst ? or some other amount ? etc it is also not clear how they perform the blocks of 15/10/5 etc 2 weeks or 1 week each block?

i read one of bryans first hst articles on think muscle where he gives the example workout using the rep range of 6-8, but he also advises via vanilla hst the use of 15-10-5's- is there any greater benefit using the 3 specific ranges except the lactic acid/tendon healing effects of the 15's

i welcome any thoughts you have.

thank you.

I've read about quite a few folks doing 6x a week, but most of the time they do an A/B split where they alternate between upper body on one day and lower body on the other.

I don't know much about the science behind muscle growth and I don't know what your body can handle - but I don't think I could handle 6 full body workouts a week. I feel pretty beat up towards the end of each 2 week series as is.

I know the 15s are good for prepping your body for the heavier loads, but I think the bigger picture of the 15 - 10 - 5 rep range is just a programming method designed so that you can easily keep adding weight for 6 - 8 weeks without burning out. You can keep adding weight as long as you keep lowering the number of reps in your sets. That's the benefit.

I think I saw someone on here logging recently (check the training log - I think its Playmaker) where he lowered the reps while increasing the weight every workout. Its the same idea, basically, though it differs from the vanilla template offered. And based on his numbers, he must be doing something right!

 

[Fatpanda]

thanks man, i'll check it out.

i'd only be doing 1 set of 6 exercises if i were to do 6x a week.

i burned out badly in the past using 2 sets of 10 exercises, but i got fantastic gains ( that was on vanilla). probably like most i found the first week of each block very easy, and the second week of each block very hard.

i often missed my end of rep range maxes, and could never increase any of my rm's cycle to cycle, but i got very big.

looking back i was badly overtrained, contant colds, flus, demotivation etc but i couldn't argue with the results.

after a long rest i want them again.