Tens and Fives only

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vagrant

New Member
I keep reading "you only have to do the 15's if you are injured or feel an injury coming on"  and "Don't do the negatives if you are alone or at risk for injury. "

My first cycle was higher volume 2x15, 3x10, 5x5, extending the 5's until one careless day when I suddenly got an unexpected SD.  The results were still excetptional.

This time I'm doing 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 - probably extending the 5's or seeing what happens with heavy doubles or triples - don't know yet, we'll see how I feel when I get there.  The results - don't know yet - after the 15's I've only gained two pounds - starting 10's tomorrow.
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However, all the discussion about "un-necessary" parts of the training cycle have made me wonder.

If you grow the most during the 10's, grow a lot during the 5's and get stronger.  Barring injury and no need for 15's - has anyone did a training cycle of just tens and fives?

I'm thinking progress through the tens for two weeks(six workouts), repeat...progress through the fives for two weeks(six workouts)...repeat.

SD then jump right back into the tens.

I haven't actually read that anyone does it quite that way, but for those that skip the 15's and the negatives - how else would you manage it?  Just do it that way or do two back to back 4 week cycles without SD like this
10's, 5's, 10's, 5's???

If this makes no sense whatsoever - sorry, I see the question clearly in my mind, but may not be expressing it well.

Asking now so I can have it sorted out when I finish this cycle.  If I'm not injured, I don't want to be wasting my time - although I don't think any time in the gym is truly wasted.

Sorting it out now before I start my next cycle with just the major big lifts, not doing the little things like curls, extesions, and calves.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just do it that way or do two back to back 4 week cycles without SD like this
10's, 5's, 10's, 5's???</div>

That's actually what I'm going to do, I finished my 5s and will do negs later, I want to extend my cycle to at least 12 weeks, so I'm taking it easy by going back to the heavy 10s and building up again, to save my joints from wear, and I'll basically zigzag every 2 weeks up to a new high.

I think its better to zigzag and prolong your cycle as long as possible, rather than keep going with the heavy 5s until your joints give out (at like 8-10 weeks).
 
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(vagrant @ Oct. 02 2006,21:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I keep reading &quot;you only have to do the 15's if you are injured or feel an injury coming on&quot;  and &quot;Don't do the negatives if you are alone or at risk for injury. &quot;

My first cycle was higher volume 2x15, 3x10, 5x5, extending the 5's until one careless day when I suddenly got an unexpected SD.  The results were still excetptional.

This time I'm doing 1x15, 2x10, 3x5 - probably extending the 5's or seeing what happens with heavy doubles or triples - don't know yet, we'll see how I feel when I get there.  The results - don't know yet - after the 15's I've only gained two pounds - starting 10's tomorrow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

However, all the discussion about &quot;un-necessary&quot; parts of the training cycle have made me wonder.

If you grow the most during the 10's, grow a lot during the 5's and get stronger.  Barring injury and no need for 15's - has anyone did a training cycle of just tens and fives?

I'm thinking progress through the tens for two weeks(six workouts), repeat...progress through the fives for two weeks(six workouts)...repeat.

SD then jump right back into the tens.

I haven't actually read that anyone does it quite that way, but for those that skip the 15's and the negatives - how else would you manage it?  Just do it that way or do two back to back 4 week cycles without SD like this
10's, 5's, 10's, 5's???

If this makes no sense whatsoever - sorry, I see the question clearly in my mind, but may not be expressing it well.

Asking now so I can have it sorted out when I finish this cycle.  If I'm not injured, I don't want to be wasting my time - although I don't think any time in the gym is truly wasted.

Sorting it out now before I start my next cycle with just the major big lifts, not doing the little things like curls, extesions, and calves.</div>
I skip the 15's and the negatives. I just do 12,10,8,5, and then 1 week of SD
 
PeakPower - share with us how it works out for you doing it that way.

Stevejones - doing the way you've described - how long have you done it - it sounds interesting. How has it worked? How many sets do YOU do on that program?
 
I am doing something different altogether this cycle. I am doing 15 reps, 5 reps and then 10 reps over 3 days in each week of the cycle. I think I will be able to extend the cycle longer this way and help avoid any repeated bout effect that may arise with two week cycles of the same rep.

Because of my age, I never skip the 15's and manage to stay injury free. I think they can be skipped occassionally but I wouldn't make a steady habit of it, no matter what your age. Most injuries that pop up when you are older are a result of wrongdoing when you were younger and invinceable.
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you can have them or not have them,some grow with 15s some dont.
do what suits you imo i would keep them in even if you dont gain muscle it saves injury,and doing 10s5s after 15s is so much easier
 
O&amp;G, Faz, SteveJones, PeakPower,

Thanks for the input. It may seem silly to plan that far ahead, since I'm into my second cycle of it and it won't end for another 6 weeks. But the more ideas I hear, the more I can learn, the more once I get it down I can find how to personalize where I need to, where to leave it alone where I need to.

The suggestion that in our older years we pay for the sins of our youth is definitely a good one since I'm not a spring chicken anymore either.

I acutally grew quite a bit on the 15's my first training cycle - but that was doing 3x15 for a week and 2x15 for the second week. True full body, with full 50%x10, 60%x10, 75%x4, 90%x2 warmups for each body part - taking 4 hours in the gym. Combine that with 5000 calories a day+medical TRT - who wouldn't grow? In spite of the good results - it wasn't the best idea I ever had. Now I know the value of the &quot;easy days&quot; that is built into HST. Switching from max ot and powerlifting to this is quite an adjustment and it's hard to hold back sometimes.
 
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(vagrant @ Oct. 03 2006,02:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">PeakPower - share with us how it works out for you doing it that way.

Stevejones - doing the way you've described - how long have you done it - it sounds interesting.  How has it worked?  How many sets do YOU do on that program?</div>
I've only done 2 cycles of HST so far, and did both cycles that way. I only did 1 working set with lots of warm ups of about....10 or 12 different exercises. I'm currently doing Max-Stim now.
 
Hey guys,

I'm new around here.. Been working out for about 6 months and being an IT guru I did my research all over the web before-hand. I'm from Australia and am 19.

When I first started hitting the gym I was just doing fullbody workouts, learning form and the machines. But I tried to increase the weight each week. Then I really started getting into it when I started noticing the gains and enjoyed seeing them
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I did ALOT of reading and indepth research into programs and came to the conclusion to use HST. I am currently midway through my first cycle - It got a little messed up due to an annual tennis competition but I worked around it. Now, on topic I have been thinking to myself the exact same thing. Being 19 and still growing (somewhat) I found the 15's not as beneficial. I slowed the tempo down and all but still have found much more growth and gains in the 10s (bout to do my 10s max today). This intriuged me and I thought about dropped the 15s and going with 8s and 5s? Heavier weights to build strength and growth at the same time - Possibly slightly smaller increments. By all means correct me and shut me down, I will consider myself further educated!

So to sum it up:

2 weeks of 8s
2 weeks of 5s
SD --->

Increase weight --->
2 weeks of 8s
2 weeks of 5s

Rinse, wash and repeat.

Cheers,
Byron!
 
15s,10s,5s are not set in stone.
firstly IMO 4wks cycle is not enough.
secondly the increments from 8s to 5s will be very little which is more beneficial to strength rather than growth
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My opinion?

Skipping the 15's may be a mistake for some of us, I find them benefitial bacause as O &amp; G points out when you are older you tend to be a lot more careful, I don't consider nmyself old at 40 but I ain't no spring chicken either...so I bet on the safe side!

If you are cutting then it makes sense to go straight into 10's and not SD, but normally SD and 15's are part of HST and they are there for a reason, skipping them too often may get you sorry!

Just my rant!
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I agree w/ the older lifters (me being second oldest) but skipped the 15's last cycle with no problems. I had read a report on high rep exersize values last year, and the conclusion was that it increases mitochondria - therefore adding to muscle size, but not strength. As someone noted in the growth thread, you may not notice growth in the 15's, but it's possible that you are growing from them even after that mesocycle.

Regardless, mitochondria are an important part of musculature, so I would alternate myself, between doing them and not doing them.
10's and 5's without an SD? Suicide for us older guys.
 
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(quadancer @ Oct. 10 2006,09:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I agree w/ the older lifters (me being second oldest) but skipped the 15's last cycle with no problems. I had read a report on high rep exersize values last year, and the conclusion was that it increases mitochondria - therefore adding to muscle size, but not strength. As someone noted in the growth thread, you may not notice growth in the 15's, but it's possible that you are growing from them even after that mesocycle.

Regardless, mitochondria are an important part of musculature, so I would alternate myself, between doing them and not doing them.
10's and 5's without an SD? Suicide for us older guys.</div>
i have to say that even though i cant perceptibily see myself growing while doing the 15's i believe they are very important for growth, different fibre types and genetics effect how our muscles grow.most muscles respond to high reps,so missing them out is a no no for me.

for the reasons you mentioned above ill always use them.
 
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