Transitioning into 5x5 right after HST cycle?

A

ACMana

New Member
Has anyone tried transitioning directly into a 5x5 program right after an HST cycle? I was thinking, since I'm only doing aprroximately 6 weeks of HST (possibly more if my gains don't plateau for a while) with 2 weeks of 2x10, 2 weeks of 3x5, and 2 weeks of 3x5 using heavy 5's, would it be as effective to transition directly into a 5x5? I thought this idea would work because a 5x5 program, as many of you know, focuses on a gradual progression in weights set to take three weeks to reach a person's 5RM (kind of like a running start in a long jump). Since I've already gradually progressed to my 5RM with my 2 weeks of 3x5 weight progression and 2 weeks of heavy 5's, would I be able to start off on the 4th week of a 5x5 program and still get the same strength gains from 5x5? Would the strength gains plateau too soon if I were to try this?

Oh yeah, thanks guys for all the help designing my first HST cycle. Here are my results from almost exactly a month, 7/30/06 to 9/2/06 (I still have 1 week of heavy 5's to go)
Right Bi +1/4"
Left Bi +1/2"
Quads +1"
Chest +3"
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(I'm measuring from the same place as I measured in the beginning. Maybe I measured in the wrong place to start with, so could someone tell me where exactly the measuring tape is supposed to go around for measuring the chest?)
Weight +3lbs.
I know, I know, that's not very many measurements, but I was unsure about where to take other measurements. You may be thinking that those gains are simply due to pump (so was I), but I've been measuring periodically, after waking up every Sunday (workout on M,W,F so Friday to Sunday is about as much time to let any pump disappear as I get any time in the week). The results have been gradually increasing, and if I had projected my results after the first two weeks, considering the majority of people experience the most growth during the 5's and post-5's, this would have approxiamtely been the number I would have gotten. I've had a little fat gain, but compared to the results, I guess it's negligible; these are by far, the best results in size I've had. Thanks, HST and HST proponents.

Any input about the direct transition would be appreciated.
 
If you are only going for six weeks, I'm assuming you decided against doing negatives? If so, you should just go right into a 5x5 program after your 10 RM day. It is still basically HST. In fact, I would do the 15s and 10s with the same lifts on the same days as you will be using during 5x5. This would be a good idea, since that will help prep your joints for the long time you will be spending in the 5 rep range.
 
It's not that I decided against negatives, it's that I skipped 15's and the extension of the heavy 5's was my only option for post-5's because I have no one who can lift the weight for me on squats, bench, deadlifts, military press, and bent over rows. But I guess it's a little too late to start it after my 10's since I'm already in my post-5's (hence the results thus far).
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So I guess that brings up another question too.

Would I be better suited to run this cycle until my gains plateau, SD, and then start a 5x5 cycle or would I still be able to transition into the 4th week of a 5x5 cycle right after my heavy 5's?

I should also probably mention why I want to run a 5x5. I want to go into a cutting cycle, and I figured that the cut cycle would just counteract an HST cycle because of HST's neccesity of a caloric surplus and a cut cycle's neccesity of a caloric deficit. I thought, "Hey, if I can't gain muscle during a cutting cycle of HST, might as well gain some strength from 5x5." Any suggestions?
 
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(ACMana @ Sep. 02 2006,11:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's not that I decided against negatives, it's that I skipped 15's and the extension of the heavy 5's was my only option for post-5's because I have no one who can lift the weight for me on squats, bench, deadlifts, military press, and bent over rows. But I guess it's a little too late to start it after my 10's since I'm already in my post-5's (hence the results thus far).
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So I guess that brings up another question too.

Would I be better suited to run this cycle until my gains plateau, SD, and then start a 5x5 cycle or would I still be able to transition into the 4th week of a 5x5 cycle right after my heavy 5's?

I should also probably mention why I want to run a 5x5. I want to go into a cutting cycle, and I figured that the cut cycle would just counteract an HST cycle because of HST's neccesity of a caloric surplus and a cut cycle's neccesity of a caloric deficit. I thought, &quot;Hey, if I can't gain muscle during a cutting cycle of HST, might as well gain some strength from 5x5.&quot; Any suggestions?</div>
I've done it several times, and I do exactly as Totentanz suggests. Whenever I do HST these days I always flow straight into a strength cycle. I've tried the Star Intermediate and Advanced routines in this regard and I prefer the intermediate.
 
But the problem is that I'm already in my post-5's, so I can't do it the same way as totentanz suggested.
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Maybe I need an answer to this first- If I'm going to run a cutting cycle, would I be better off using HST or 5x5?
 
It won't really matter. What I would do is just skip the SD and go straight into the 15s. Keep calories at maintenance during the 15s, then start cutting them back during the 10s. Once you get into the 5s, just morph it into a 5x5 cycle as described earlier and cruise until you are done cutting or you need a break.
Don't expect much of a strength gain on a calorie deficit though. Just concentrate on maintaining your strength during this period. Few people will gain strength while cutting, unless they are obese or have never trained. But with 5x5/HST, you should be able to maintain your strength which means less lean mass loss while dieting.
 
Ahh. I guess my reasoning that strength gain would not be compromised during by a calorie deficit was incorrect. If it's true that I can't make much strength gain on a cut cycle, would you suggest I just do an HST cycle? Is there any program / routine that you think is the best for cutting?
 
Not an expert on cutting, but people seem to report minimal strength/mass losses when using heavy weights. Notice what totentanz said about not cutting calories below maintenance until you get to the 10s.

In general, stick to basic compounds, with few or no isolations, and work in mid to low RM ranges. Using either HST / 5x5 or a combination as Totentanz suggests should be ok if you stick to those guidelines. Oh, and keep protein at least 1gm per lb of bodyweight.
 
I agree with Totentanz, the only thing I would add is, if you're not keeping a daily journal of calories, then start doing it.
 
So this is what you guys are suggesting: finish this cycle, skip the SD, start a new HST cycle, and after finishing the 10's, start on the first week of a 5x5 cycle?

And yea, I do plan to log my calories.
 
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(ACMana @ Sep. 03 2006,01:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So this is what you guys are suggesting: finish this cycle, skip the SD, start a new HST cycle, and after finishing the 10's, start on the first week of a 5x5 cycle?

And yea, I do plan to log my calories.</div>
yes this will work fine !
the second option is when you want to bulk again, you can make two deloadingweeks and then start at the first week from the 5x5 programm.
This should work fine too !

But I for myself i don`t want to make a 5x5 while I´m cutting... when cutting i would suggest a normal hst programm like you did and then following the caloric advice that totentanz has written above !
 
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(liegelord @ Sep. 12 2006,01:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You use higher loads with a 5x5 as opposed to doing an HST routine. I'd stick with a 5x5.</div>
it is too much &quot;energy robbing&quot; while cutting in my opinion !
 
if your cutting use the heaviest weight you can the body then has to hold onto some muscle to keep lifting heavy...when i say heavy i mean as much as you can lift on a calorific deficet.good luck
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I don't think 5x5 uses a lot more energy than HST. If you look at overall volume, it is very similar. The difference is that with 5x5, you are focusing on only a few core lifts and you increment less often.
 
Wow, I had no idea this thread was &quot;revived.&quot; After searching and considering multiple opinions, I've decided to go with CW's 10x3 for Fat Loss with the T-Dawg 2.0 Diet. The idea behind the 10x3 program is intruiging and I'm always willing to try something new. I'm trying to lose about 10 lbs in 10 weeks, but since the 10x3 program was orginally posted as a 4 week program, I'll try it for the first four weeks and see if I'm losing too much LBM and/or not enough fat.
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As for the 5x5 program template / outline, here you go:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
 
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