Unclear about negatives
- Thread starter darnelled
- Start date
You can shoot for the2- 3 rep range for negatives. You can do the same number of sets you are doing during the 5's. As far as weight, you could just work yourself up to your new 2-3 RM and then increase a bit from there for 2-3 negs. Another option is to just stay at your 5 rep max for another 2 weeks or work up to your new 5 rep max and stay there for 2 more weeks or so.
Keystone
Keystone
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
does anyone even do the negatives anymore?
Hey darnelled,
Good advice from Keystone.
It is often possible to use up to 30-40% more load for negatives than you would be able to lift concentrically. However, at the end of a cycle you just want to increase the loading above the level you used during 5s. This may be your 2-3 RM. Instead of struggling to lift the load concentrically for a few CNS destroying sets you can do many more reps eccentrically with the same load. Sets of 5 eccentrics with your 2-3 RM are usually doable before it becomes really hard to control rep speed. I would still aim for 20 total reps for any exercises where I do eccentrics. You might need to do more or less depending on your level of conditioning to the load.
Personally, I think negs (eccentrics) can be very useful at the end of a cycle. They definitely have their place but, as they are usually quite difficult to do for most exercises, it is often more straightforward to switch to 3s after the two weeks of 5s to allow for the loads to be incremented further. The downside to triples is the wear and tear on your joints from the heavier loads and the need to ensure you have really good form for all exercises where you are pushing the loads up this high. Sloppy form and heavy loads can easily lead to injury. Always be smart and stop a set if anything feels like it's straining in a bad way. Pushing on after a warning twinge is a great way to sustain an injury that will keep you from training that body part for a good few weeks or possibly more. It's just not worth it.
Some exercises lend themselves quite well to negs. For dipping and chinning type exercises you can use a platform and leg strength to get to the top of the movement and then lower under control.
It is often possible to use momentum, other muscle groups, or a spare limb to raise a weight and then lower it using the target muscles -- what you might term 'assisted negatives'.
Eg. you can push press or push jerk a bb or db overhead and then lower under control. Cheat curling a db or bb would be similar - raise the load with some extra body English and then lower under control.
For negative flyes, you could db bench press to raise the dbs and then lower under control with a flying motion before bringing the dbs back in toward your body and pressing them again.
For unilateral exercises, it is often possible to perform negatives by using the free arm or leg to help raise the weight. Db bi-curls and tri-extensions would work well here. If your balance and form are very good you could do weighted negative pistols (using dbs), alternating legs for the eccentric and raising up with both.
Many machines make it much easier to perform negatives. Often you can use your legs to help raise the loads for upper-body exercises.
Whether you use machines or free-weights, if you train with a partner they can help you with the eccentric part of a movement and then allow you to lower it without assistance.
@Joe: yeah, I do them if I'm doing a proper HST cycle but only for exercises where it makes sense for me to do so. Dips and chins are my faves as they are so easy to do, but I also do assisted negs for delts with heavy push presses or push jerks. I have managed 100kg (220lb) for negs with push jerks which is way over my 1RM concentric strict press. Pretty much everything else I'll switch to triples or continue the 5s and do a bit more volume.
Good advice from Keystone.
It is often possible to use up to 30-40% more load for negatives than you would be able to lift concentrically. However, at the end of a cycle you just want to increase the loading above the level you used during 5s. This may be your 2-3 RM. Instead of struggling to lift the load concentrically for a few CNS destroying sets you can do many more reps eccentrically with the same load. Sets of 5 eccentrics with your 2-3 RM are usually doable before it becomes really hard to control rep speed. I would still aim for 20 total reps for any exercises where I do eccentrics. You might need to do more or less depending on your level of conditioning to the load.
Personally, I think negs (eccentrics) can be very useful at the end of a cycle. They definitely have their place but, as they are usually quite difficult to do for most exercises, it is often more straightforward to switch to 3s after the two weeks of 5s to allow for the loads to be incremented further. The downside to triples is the wear and tear on your joints from the heavier loads and the need to ensure you have really good form for all exercises where you are pushing the loads up this high. Sloppy form and heavy loads can easily lead to injury. Always be smart and stop a set if anything feels like it's straining in a bad way. Pushing on after a warning twinge is a great way to sustain an injury that will keep you from training that body part for a good few weeks or possibly more. It's just not worth it.
Some exercises lend themselves quite well to negs. For dipping and chinning type exercises you can use a platform and leg strength to get to the top of the movement and then lower under control.
It is often possible to use momentum, other muscle groups, or a spare limb to raise a weight and then lower it using the target muscles -- what you might term 'assisted negatives'.
Eg. you can push press or push jerk a bb or db overhead and then lower under control. Cheat curling a db or bb would be similar - raise the load with some extra body English and then lower under control.
For negative flyes, you could db bench press to raise the dbs and then lower under control with a flying motion before bringing the dbs back in toward your body and pressing them again.
For unilateral exercises, it is often possible to perform negatives by using the free arm or leg to help raise the weight. Db bi-curls and tri-extensions would work well here. If your balance and form are very good you could do weighted negative pistols (using dbs), alternating legs for the eccentric and raising up with both.
Many machines make it much easier to perform negatives. Often you can use your legs to help raise the loads for upper-body exercises.
Whether you use machines or free-weights, if you train with a partner they can help you with the eccentric part of a movement and then allow you to lower it without assistance.
@Joe: yeah, I do them if I'm doing a proper HST cycle but only for exercises where it makes sense for me to do so. Dips and chins are my faves as they are so easy to do, but I also do assisted negs for delts with heavy push presses or push jerks. I have managed 100kg (220lb) for negs with push jerks which is way over my 1RM concentric strict press. Pretty much everything else I'll switch to triples or continue the 5s and do a bit more volume.