waterburys training

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choco

New Member
Hello Guys,
im a man from germany and a reader from t-mag, johnberardi.com and hypertrophy-specific.
i have made 2 hst cycles with good results in size but not so good results in strength.

My question is what do you guys think of waterburys training methods that are postet at t-mag.com ? i think they are very similliar to hst, arent they? anyone here has trained such a program, if yes with wat results ?

i think the main difference between hst and the waterbury training is that he advices for more volume and reps in each training, but the principles are the same like hst!

I`m right at this point? if not please tell me the difference!
i hope my english is good without much grammatically failures
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greetings
choco
 
Hey Choco people don't usually respond to T-mag stuff here. You can go to forums.menshealth.com for that. There are a lot of waterbury fans over there.

There are some difference with waterbury's training and HST, but it depends on which one of his routines you are doing. He changes it up all the time.

You said you got good size gains but not strength. I'm interested in knowing what sizes you saw and what strength increases you got from your 2 cycles. You may just be thinking that you aren't getting strong fast enough. It takes time.
 
If you're looking for strength gains, you'd be better off with something like 5x5, which still basically follows HST principals, so it would still be quiite good for mass gains as well, assuming you eat enough while doing it. HST and 5x5 go together like pees and carrots.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You said you got good size gains but not strength. I'm interested in knowing what sizes you saw and what strength increases you got from your 2 cycles. You may just be thinking that you aren't getting strong fast enough. It takes time.</div>

hello, size gain was about 8 kg and my strength went only up after both cycles only in squats and deadlifts, each exercise strength went up 5kg. in the other exercises was nothing....
so surely it will take time ;-) actually im thinking about clustering dips and chinups next time with added weight....

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you're looking for strength gains, you'd be better off with something like 5x5, which still basically follows HST principals, so it would still be quiite good for mass gains as well, assuming you eat enough while doing it. HST and 5x5 go together like pees and carrots.</div>

Yes thanx boy, that was my opinion too, so i was thinking to do this like you said! my only question about this is
-are 4 weeks for 5x5 ok and
-can i do this 5x5 cycle directly after my hst cycle, without making a SD before?


ok, so when im already posting, i will write my routine down, so i will be happy if anybody can say something about it and give me advices :-)

My routine:

Dead-Lift
Squats
Flat Bench Press
Military Press
Chinups
Dips
Crunches

I make this every other day, so im in the gym 3 or 4 times per week.
1st week 1 rep 15 sets
2st+3st week 2 reps 10 sets
4st+5st week 3 reps 5 sets
6st week 3 reps 5 sets with my 5rm
(7st week add more load and go down with my sets)
then 7-14 days SD

zig zagging is included, first week i start with 70% of my 15rm, in my first cycle i made two weeks of 15, so i started with 60 % of my 15rm.
i maximaly train 2 days with the same load.

so any suggestions,advices to me ?
is my routine ok? i have seen you all have more exercises, but here in germany we make only 6 or 7 exercises, should i change here anything?
i need for this routine round about 45-60 minutes in the gym, how long do you all need?

greetings
Choco
 
If you just completed an HST cycle, then don't bother taking an SD before heading into 5x5. YOu could do the deloading week beforehand if you want. 5x5 typically lasts 8-9 weeks, with the first four weeks being the volume phase, a week of deloading, then another 3 weeks or so in the intesity phase. That's the easiest variation, anyway, and what you'll probably want to do your first time around.

The link navigator posted is excellent and exactly where I refer everyone to.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Mar. 23 2006,21:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you're looking for strength gains, you'd be better off with something like 5x5, which still basically follows HST principals, so it would still be quiite good for mass gains as well, assuming you eat enough while doing it. HST and 5x5 go together like pees and carrots.</div>
Ditto on these statements. I started mixing up 5x5 and HST a few months ago after my first HST cycle, and the results I have seen I am VERY happy with. Basically, I've been doing a cycle of HST, followed by a cycle of 5x5, etc.

Works great in combo for both size and strength gains!
 
totentanz, thanx i will study this page that you have posted !! it looks good ! and i think it will help me much to make a better 5x5 routine with this new knowledge :-)

now, can anybody say something to my other questions?

greets
choco
 
If you read around a bit, you'll find that waterbury is pretty much a total retard. He says some really dumb things in other articles and I've seen more than enough that I would completely ignore anything he says.
 
okay...
now im thinking never change a running system! so i will go on with hst and a 5x5 routine.

but any thoughts about my posted routine? so i dont must open a new thread about this.

greets
choco
 
The routine looks solid. It looks very similar to what I do, actually, except I would add in bentover rows in addition to the chins. That's just me though, the way you have it right now should give some excellent gains, assuming you eat enough.
 
I'd recommend splitting up squats and deadlifts. Try doing squats first, and deadlifts last (so you have something to look forward to
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oh sorry, squats are the first exercise and the second what i do are the deadlifts !!
its of course better for the upper back...

and dont you guys have any problems with your upper back when the loads get heavier and you do squats and deadlifts in every single training day?
my own feeling is this, so i sometimes do switch this two exercises.....

im thinking the number of exercises must be ok, so im satisfied that i hear that you all find it ok too, because haycock or some other hst examples have a lot more exercises .... (but i think not so much multi-compound-exercises?)

oh yes, a big question, what do you guys make for your bi and trizeps?
i make sometimes if i want and feel it would nice, at the end of my workout some exercises for bi or trizeps, but only to pump it a little bit, not with heavy loads....

what are your experiences with loaded stretching and strip sets, better hypertrophy? im thinking about re-reading this in the faq-book and pimp my hst book...
would it be very useful ?

greetings choco

[yes, im eating proper, in the last two cycles i have followed the massive eating from johnberardi and that was very good, the guy understand something from this ;-)]
 
For arms, I do a high rep set of curls or whatever with something close to my 15 RM, I do this after my workout is done. But I only do this during the 5s and post5s. It seems to work.

You can alternate deads and squats if you need to. When I do squats first in the workout and deads last, I don't find any need to alternate.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When I do squats first in the workout and deads last, I don't find any need to alternate. </div>
thats a nice thinking, i will try this and see if it works !!
my only argue was till this time that when i make deads as last exercise that i have not enough power to do this clean. but i will try ....

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">For arms, I do a high rep set of curls or whatever with something close to my 15 RM, I do this after my workout is done. But I only do this during the 5s and post5s. It seems to work.</div>
nice nice, im beginning with it mostly at the second weeks of the 10s.... with high reps too...
funny and interessting to see that someone have an similiar plan and thinking like i do
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totentanz,
how much cycles have you done and what are your results till this time ? do you have loaded stretching, strip sets or any clustering in your cycles too?

greets
choco
 
Choco your routine looks solid. You can add some isolation work if you want to though. I personally do the standard HST routine, but my workouts extend to 1.5-2 hours. I'm usually physically spent when I finish.
 
choco,

I just read this thread..... your original inquiry was about not gaining strength with HST... well, HST is not a trength-gaining oriented method, it is an hypertrophy oriented method..... to achieve this you do the following:

1) most of your workouts are in the 8-15 rep range, which stimulates mainly hypertrophy with not that much strength gaining.... however, to overcome this you can use the last 2 weeks of your cycles for added 5's and even for powerlifting (about 3 reps)

2) As you know in HST SD is about 9-10 days, this is not only to clear your CNS, where only 1 wk approx is required; but also for your tendoms, ligaments and joints in general to get unused to the heavy weight you impossed on them, so, the aim is to achieve hypertrophy without stressing your joints too much in the long run..... so, to overcome this by still using HST you can decrease your SD to 1 week only... remember, the extra 2-3 days that we use is for the joints to get unused to heavy poundages
 
hello latinblast, nice that you reply to this old thread....
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">to overcome this you can use the last 2 weeks of your cycles for added 5's and even for powerlifting (about 3 reps)</div>
yes thats my intention i thought about to do this and i have done this in my second cycle.... go up with my weights and down with the reps in the last weeks..... or im going to do a 5x5 bill star thing after my hst cycle without some sd between hst and 5x5, like totentanz has said......

to 2)
thankx for the special intake !! so 1 week sd is definately ok?! because i thought 14 days are better to make sd, but after 1 week i cant wait any longer to take my ass back into the gym !!
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greetz
choco
 
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