grains+seeds,grains+milk products,grains+legumes

alpha

New Member
I had originally posted this on bodybuilding.com.
I hope I get better/more responses here
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I've always heard(on bb.com and other web sites) that vegetarian foods are useless for building muscle size because vegetables have incomplete protein, that is: they lack some essential amino-acids. But i read that by combining certain foods which have incomplete protein you can get a complete protein. for example: Rice + beans, legume soup + bread, rice with sesame seeds, cereal with milk, pasta with cheese/milk..etc.
I read this in Arnolds Encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding(frances moore 1974 In a diet for a small planet) and a few doctors and Indian nutritionalists told me the same (granted these are probably not the best sources).
Arnold says "combining incomplete protein in this way is useful because it usually involves eating food that are low in fat, thus contains fewer calories than in common complete protein sources."
The missing amino-acids lacking in one food are made up for in the other food.
1.Does anyone know for a fact that what I have said is true/not true?
2.Do you know of any essential amino-acid which may be lacking even with these combinations or any other reason why these foods are no good? (pls. state sources if possible)
3.Do you know of any website which has info. on the availability of essential amino-acids in various food sources and their amount per gram of the food source?
Any help would be appreciated.
:)
 
You can do it, but the combinations are too numerous to mention, visit USDA which has an amino acid profile for legumes, seeds etc and compare that to a meat's profile. You'll have to do a little more planning, but you will eventually find a few combinations that you like and can prepare quickly. Protein to carb ratio doesn't have to be any different, just take into account the carbs that will be present in beans etc.

Now, as a lacto-ovo vegetarian (milk, cheese and eggs) you'll have a much easier task since these proteins are mostly complete.
 
Protiens are not incomplete, but rather insufficient

they contain all aminos just not in high enough amounts to be 'suitable' for growth. eating beans and grains at two different times of the day will work well, so you dont need to 'combine' them.

If you are vegan, eat plenty of higher protein foods.
if you are lacto.ovo or whatever vegetarian, its less important.
 
Im not a vegetarian. I live in India (this may explain any oddities in my eating habits
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i only get meat at one meal(dinner)
for lunch i eat legumes and brown rice. i wanted to know if such combinations would get me enough bcaas.
theres a limit to how many eggs i can eat without feeling sick. now i eat around 2whole eggs and 4-6 eggwhites. 4 glasses of milk a day.
Dont know if im getting enough protein.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Sep. 11 2003,5:52)]Protiens are not incomplete, but rather insufficient
they contain all aminos just not in high enough amounts to be 'suitable' for growth. eating beans and grains at two different times of the day will work well, so you dont need to 'combine' them.
If you are vegan, eat plenty of higher protein foods.
if you are lacto.ovo or whatever vegetarian, its less important.
so all veg combinations(except eggs/milk) contain insufficient essential aminos? but soy is supposed to have them in high quantities.
I thought, from what i've read, legumes had some essential aminos in high quantities but were lacking in others(ex. methonine {forgive spelling errors}). by combining it with another veg food which is high in those aminos one could get the required amount of BCAAs. Lots of Indian nutritionalists seem sure that you can get enough essential aminos by these combinations.
Does anyone know of a site where i can get the amino acid profile of vegetarian foods? And what proportions the aminos have to be so as to be absorbed/used by muscles?
 
I wasnt saying all combined vege proteins are lacking in certain aminos. I was saying individual vege are lacking. Soy in fact is lacking in methionine, which is why soy infant formula is fortified with that.
If you are eating adequate amount of protien from a variety of plant sources throughout the day you get plenty of aminos for the body.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Sep. 12 2003,3:30)]If you are eating adequate amount of protien from a variety of plant sources throughout the day you get plenty of aminos for the body.
Are you sure about this?
the problem is I dont know the ratio of carbs to usable protein.
with lean meat and egg whites i know what im eating is atleast 70% protein, but if i use a combination of lentils and seeds(wholewheat bread, rice) Im not sure how much protein im getting per serving. For example, if im eating 100grams of lentils + brown rice, does it contain only 8 grams of essential aminos? And in what ratios should i combine the rice and legumes/beans for the best combination of essential aminos.
 
Read what I said again

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If you are eating adequate amount of protien from a variety of plant sources throughout the day you get plenty of aminos for the body.
100g of lentils and brown rice does NOT provide an adequate amount of protien. Most available protiens are 40-50% essentail amino acids. If you eat a variety of sources over the day you are going to get adequate levels of aminos.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Sep. 13 2003,3:34)]100g of lentils and brown rice does NOT provide an adequate amount of protien. Most available protiens are 40-50% essentail amino acids. If you eat a variety of sources over the day you are going to get adequate levels of aminos.
I only used the 100gm thing as an example. Thats not how much i eat at a meal.
A normal Indian meal consists of two or more veg. sources. I have yet to meet anyone who eats only one veg. at a meal. So as u can see, variety is not an issue for me. Its the possibility that i might not get as much as 120-160 gms of protein without consuming a ridicules amount of carbs.
Your statement:
"If you eat a variety of sources over the day you are going to get adequate levels of aminos."
Lets change it:
"If you eat a variety of sources over the day(*in adequate quantities*) you are going to get adequate levels of aminos
(!and too much carbs! ) "
Is the statement still true? The 1st addition is a given. Its the possibility of the 2nd addition that bothers me.
What ratio of protein:carb:fats do you recommend? And are you SURE that ratio can be achieved by eating "a variety of sources over the day"?
I apologize if i was a little long winded, I was trying to make my point clear.
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What do you mean by too much carbs. As long as they are within caloric requirements its ok.
I can eat 140g of protein per day while eating below maintenance, or above maintenance, without adding in powders or meat (not that I do, its just I can)
Look for higher protien, lower carbohydrate veges if you are that picky about lower carbs. Beans while they have a higher carb content, a large proportion are not digestible.

you do not need a ratio of protein to carbs (sounds like a zone concept). You need adequate protein, and adequate energy. Where this energy comes from (carbs/fat) is up to the person and their training requirements.
 
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