1st Cycle of HST

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JonnyH

New Member
Hey guys so im new to this forum been reading the site for a while and looking to prepare my first cycle and just run through what ive got down so those with more experience could help modify it a bit?

I weigh around 146lbs at 19 and ive never worked out properly in my life so im looking to finally start packing some mass onto my frame.

The exercises i have down are the main compounds and a couple isolations:

1) Squat
2) Deadlifts
3) Bench Press
4) Bent Row
5) Dips
6) Chins
7) Standing military
8) Barbell Curls
9) Tricep Extension

Few questions:

Is there a better order to do these exercises in?
For example i tried out my 15's earlier today (Which wasnt enjoyable!) and by the time i was on bent rows my legs were just feeling far to weak to support me well so im gonna have to do them again properly. So is it better to leave leg work till the end?

Then are there better versions of each exercise for HST? Should i be doing Stiff legged deadlifts or romanian deadlifts, military press behind or infront of the head etc.

Also on dips and chins i could only manage 7-8 on either with my bodyweight & im not working out at a gym where they have machines to make you lighter. Im using a power rack and olympic weight set at home..so what do i do in terms of progression if i cant even manage 10 let alone go from 15 - 10 - 5 ?

I understand to get bigger its also largely about nutrition so ive worked out roughly a caloric surplus of 500-800 and used articles on this site to split up the different ratio of macronutrients that comes from that.

Thats all i can think of right now so cheerss for any help or advice.
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Jonny, you will make great progress as you are new to the game. The weakness you experienced is common in untrained individuals but your body will respond fairly quickly and you should start feeling stronger after a week or two. Why not swap chins and rows for the time being so that you give your legs and lower back a little more time to recover before the rows?

The problem you have with reps for dips and chins is common too. Just do as many as you can whilst avoiding failure until 5s then start to add a bit of weight for a bit of progression during 5s.

My suggestion would be to do just one set of 7 or 8 reps during 15s and then add in another set during 10s (you might only get 4 or 5 reps for your second set but no matter). Then once you are in 5s do three sets and add weight when you can. That way you will be doing more work the entire cycle even if your rep counts per set are not that different. Continue to add weight and do negs for post-5s.

Hopefully, after a few cycles your strength will have picked up enough to be able to get the reps and increment the load for the entire cycle.

Oh yeah, getting your nutrition right will make all the difference between a bit of progress and great progress.

One other thing: after a few cycles you will be a fair bit stronger. At that point you may find you need to cut back on the number of exercises a bit or start to alternate some of them to better manage fatigue.

Any other points just ask.
 
good advice from lol..you can use a bench when doing chins or dips to take some of the weight..just put your feet on it.
i would put squats and deadlifts at seperate ends of the routine..ie squats beggining deadlifts at the end ,together they are tough
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Yeah thanks for the advice guys ill leave deadlifts till the end & swap chins with bent rows.
Few more questions:

On deadlifts should i be doing stiff legged deadlifts or straight legged deadlifts, normal deadlifts..romanian deadlifts? lol on the examples in this site: http://www.exrx.net/WeightE....ft.html many of the examples of the variations have the guy bending his back at the end which ive read is dangerous ?

Also on military presses i find it more comfortable lowering the bar behind my head which ive also read can be dangerous, so is this alright?

Finally on chin ups i feel like im pulling myself up with my biceps mainly not so much my back, so im wondering if theres a specific technique to doing this.

Thanks.
 
<div>
(JonnyH @ Jul. 25 2006,18:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah thanks for the advice guys ill leave deadlifts till the end &amp; swap chins with bent rows.
Few more questions:

On deadlifts should i be doing stiff legged deadlifts or straight legged deadlifts, normal deadlifts..romanian deadlifts? lol on the examples in this site: http://www.exrx.net/WeightE....ft.html many of the examples of the variations have the guy bending his back at the end which ive read is dangerous ?

Also on military presses i find it more comfortable lowering the bar behind my head which ive also read can be dangerous, so is this alright?

Finally on chin ups i feel like im pulling myself up with my biceps mainly not so much my back, so im wondering if theres a specific technique to doing this.

Thanks.</div>
dont press behind neck( in front)
your bicep is the weak link thats why you feel it more just keep doing them
do these ones dont get carried away with the weight untill you get the exercise correct.


http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html
 
JonnyH, you could also alternate the exercises using A &amp; B workouts MWF:

A: olympic squats, bench, 90 degree row, standing OH press
B: conventional deadlifts, dips, chins, standing OH press

As long as you eat above maintenance and sleep enough, you have to gain on this rountine.
 
Would doing it like that result in the same kinda gains even though the exercises are more infrequent?

Something ive noticed aswell is that my starting weights for 15s are useless..so for example how am i supposed to create progressive overload well if i can only lift 5kg on the tricep extension for 15 reps without my arm giving up. lol
The lowest weight i have is 2.5kg...so to split it over 6 workouts id have to do just an empty dumbell twice...then the dumbell with 2.5kg on one side twice...then the dumbell with 5kg for the last two. Would a progression of only 2.5kg every two workouts be enough to have an effect?
Or should i just be lifting as much weight as i can for 15 reps and finish before i reach failure for a while as ive heard beginners normally increase there strength quite quickly?
 
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(JonnyH @ Jul. 27 2006,16:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Would doing it like that result in the same kinda gains even though the exercises are more infrequent?

Something ive noticed aswell is that my starting weights for 15s are useless..so for example how am i supposed to create progressive overload well if i can only lift 5kg on the tricep extension for 15 reps without my arm giving up. lol
The lowest weight i have is 2.5kg...so to split it over 6 workouts id have to do just an empty dumbell twice...then the dumbell with 2.5kg on one side twice...then the dumbell with 5kg for the last two. Would a progression of only 2.5kg every two workouts be enough to have an effect?
Or should i just be lifting as much weight as i can for 15 reps and finish before i reach failure for a while as ive heard beginners normally increase there strength quite quickly?</div>
You could do skull crushers with a barbell. You should have a much higher 15 rm, and therefore it would be easier to set up a progression towards it.

2.5 kg would be a small increment for the legs, but for a single arm Iso, it shouldn't be a problem.
 
Don't worry about progression too much during 15s but do as the others have said and use a barbell where possible for greater load. Two or three increments are fine if that's all you can do. Just go for a good burn. If the first weight is really light do a whole pile more reps if you like. I often start with 25 for my first session of 15s as I don't like to go really slowly (which is another thing you could do). I try to maintain about the same cadence for the entire cycle although things slow up a bit towards the heavy 5RMs.
 
Yess thats a good idea ill just use the barbell again for triceps thatll make it easier.

Ive been reading the FAQ a bit more about how 15's are mainly designed to prepare your tendons etc for the upcoming loads and so your mainly going for the burn as Lol just said.
So when i do my first week of 15's with the very first weight..and slow down each rep if by the 15th rep im still not experiencing a burn because the weight is lighter do i just continue until i feel the burn regardless of how many reps it takes ?

Also ive been reading a lot about the beneficial effects of supplementing with creatine aswell aslong as you have everything else down. So if i bought some and i didnt fatigue on each lift as quickly...should i find out my rep maxes all over again? Or just carry on as now because the main thing is simply to progress to heavier weights each session rather than concentrate on whether your lifting as much as possible..  
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Again thanks for any replies    
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<div>
(JonnyH @ Jul. 30 2006,04:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yess thats a good idea ill just use the barbell again for triceps thatll make it easier.

Ive been reading the FAQ a bit more about how 15's are mainly designed to prepare your tendons etc for the upcoming loads and so your mainly going for the burn as Lol just said.
So when i do my first week of 15's with the very first weight..and slow down each rep if by the 15th rep im still not experiencing a burn because the weight is lighter do i just continue until i feel the burn regardless of how many reps it takes ?

Also ive been reading a lot about the beneficial effects of supplementing with creatine aswell aslong as you have everything else down. So if i bought some and i didnt fatigue on each lift as quickly...should i find out my rep maxes all over again? Or just carry on as now because the main thing is simply to progress to heavier weights each session rather than concentrate on whether your lifting as much as possible..  
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Again thanks for any replies    
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just do more reps untill you feel the burn dont go to faliure.
dont change your maxes but at the last workout of each 2wk cycle you can lift more weight then lift it and use that as your new rep max for your next cycle.good luck
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Ok so you just stop once you start feeling a burning sensation yeah.

I keep seeing people mentioning splitting up the workout into A &amp; B sessions aswell so you do A - monday B - wednesday etc like liegelord mentioned earlier in this thread.
It would make each workout easier with less to do, but would you get the same gains from splitting it up like this?
I mean surely youd have more of a progression because of more increments doing each exercise 6 times over 2 weeks rather than 3 times and so progress to heavier weights quicker unless you used bigger increments over the 3 sessions?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> It would make each workout easier with less to do, but would you get the same gains from splitting it up like this?
I mean surely youd have more of a progression because of more increments doing each exercise 6 times over 2 weeks rather than 3 times and so progress to heavier weights quicker unless you used bigger increments over the 3 sessions? </div>
good question above on the gains part...i bump the question...I'd like to know the answer too...
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<div>
(bosbik @ Aug. 02 2006,06:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> It would make each workout easier with less to do, but would you get the same gains from splitting it up like this?
I mean surely youd have more of a progression because of more increments doing each exercise 6 times over 2 weeks rather than 3 times and so progress to heavier weights quicker unless you used bigger increments over the 3 sessions? </div>
good question above on the gains part...i bump the question...I'd like to know the answer too...
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the bigger the increments the more hypertrophy,so three bigger increments will be better than 6 smaller.
also alternating can be better for boredom.
but doing the same exercises is better for neural learning(strength)and you dont have to increase every workout you could increase every 2nd workout so 3 times in 2wks
 
Yes, you will be using bigger increments as you still want to get to your RMs by the end of each 2 week meso-cycle. For each meso-cycle, calculate all the weights for each w/o as if you were going to do 6 w/os and then just pick the load for the w/o you are on.

eg. if for squats you were planning on doing:

150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200 for 15s

then instead, if you were alternating, you would do:

150, 170, 190.

Or you could choose to use:

160, 180, 200

in order to use your 15RM load on the final w/o for that rep range.

Make sense?
 
Just wanted to update since where i last was when i finally got round to starting in august. Im still coming to the end of my first cycle (though in my 4th/5th week of 5's since i still seem to be getting stronger slowly) &amp; my weight has gone from 146lbs to 164lbs which is almost a 20lb increase which was way beyond my expectations.  
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So far 5rm for Squat has gone up - 55lbs
Bench press up - 44lbs
Sumo deadlift up - 44lbs
Bent over rows - 44lbs
Chin ups up - 11lbs
Military press up - 44lbs
Dips up - 22lbs
Barbell curls up - 7.5lbs (biceps seem to be my weak point)

Im aiming for 180lbs before i start cutting, though my waist has only gone up about 1 inch or so.
I seem bigger most places mainly my shoulders, back and thighs. I didnt take any proper measurements at the start other than waist as i wasnt expecting a large amount of growth in my first cycle, mainly just to get used to the different lifts and get hopefully a lot stronger but its been a very enjoyable side effectt.

Ill post up some pics comparing before and now if anyone wants to see them.

I do have a question again though, i have seen a few times people saying in past searches ive done that they believe working out 2 x per day everyday of the week is the most optimal way to do things &amp; i have no commitments right now so id be able to do this, just wondering about the reasoning behind it?
 
yes well done great gains..as sci said dont change anything you only need to change when you are no longer gaining.
 
Having the liberty to train twice per day and/or everyday opens up the possibility to significantly increase training volume.

As long as a &quot;highly conditioned&quot; person stays within his/her limits of exercise tolerance, doing more generally means better gains. I don't mean more fatigue, I mean more reps with a given load... Sounds like one in the same but it isn't really. To understand, consider the &quot;effort&quot; (A.K.A. CNS activation, or even &quot;intensity&quot; by its incorrect HIT terminology) it requires to do the 1st as compared to the last rep of your 10 rep max. The tension produced on the tissue doesn't change from the 1st rep to the last. The only thing that changes is the amount of CNS activiation required to contract the muscle under load.

So, more reps doesn't necessarily mean more fatigue if you can get enough rest in between sets. To get more and more rest, simply do 2 workouts spread out by several hours. Hence, the value of training twice per day.

Another advantage is being able to do more volume per bodypart during one session. You can also split the body up into 2 halves and train half in the AM and the other half in the PM. This essentially allows you to double the amount of volume per session per bodypart.



This also applies to cardio.

It may sound counterproductive but it isn't. Just consuming more food will create a more anabolic environment (more insulin, more leptin, more test, more GH), and the additional exercise also enhances this by increasing IGF-1, and protein synthesis rates in tissues. (yes, cardio increases protein synthesis in those muscle you are using)

The additional exercise will also lower your average glycogen levels and increase your insulin sensitivity at the same time, in addition you will get some upregulation of lipolytic enzymes. All of this makes those additional calories that you are eating less lipogenic.
 
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