I
imported_fearfactory
Guest
nice work! looking forward to your posts on grip strength. ever get around to static holds?
1st HST Cycle - Background Info
- Thread starter soflsun
- Start date
UFGatorDude30
New Member
I like Pendlays over standard bent over rows because, like deads, you are setting the weight back down on the ground. For those of us with messed up, or weak lower backs, this is great because you don't waste a lot of energy holding up the weight in between reps. A lot of people don't like them because they can feel awkward at first, and may even seem harder... but after half a cycle of doing them I fell in love with them.
Also, is there a certain reason you don't like zigzag? That isn't a condescending question but I just feel like there is this bad aura around it that makes people not like it. Some of my best strength gains, and certainly my best hypertrophy gains in recent times came when I implemented it into my routine.
Also, is there a certain reason you don't like zigzag? That isn't a condescending question but I just feel like there is this bad aura around it that makes people not like it. Some of my best strength gains, and certainly my best hypertrophy gains in recent times came when I implemented it into my routine.
Hey UF,
Since my reps change throughout each mesocycle, I just thought it would be better to have 1 less varaiable and make sure that the weight progressed (or at least never decreased) each workout. Other than that, I don't have anything against zigzaging...why do you think your most strength and hypertrophy occured while during a zigzag setup?
fear,
Never really messed with the static holds, but my #1 COC's should be here by Monday so the grip trainig will begin then. Thanks.
Since my reps change throughout each mesocycle, I just thought it would be better to have 1 less varaiable and make sure that the weight progressed (or at least never decreased) each workout. Other than that, I don't have anything against zigzaging...why do you think your most strength and hypertrophy occured while during a zigzag setup?
fear,
Never really messed with the static holds, but my #1 COC's should be here by Monday so the grip trainig will begin then. Thanks.
9/18
Week 4 Workout #10 2x10
Pull-ups (4th plate) *I do these palms facing away with a wider-than shoulder width*/BB Incline bench 155 lbs
Squats 205 lbs/Leg curls 105 lbs
Calf raises (Leg press machine) 320 lbs/Standing calf raises 160 lbs
20 min rest
BB rows 145 lbs/BB flat bench 185 lbs
DB shoulder press 110 lbs
BB curls 75 lbs/Skulls 70 lbs
Rear-delt raises 25 lbs/Shrugs 230 lbs
Everything feels pretty heavy at this point. Rows, curls, and shoulder press being the most difficult. I had to cluster the last couple of reps on the 2nd set of shoulder press and on curls I needed three mini sets to finish the last 10 reps. Rows are beating me up at this point...I tried to do them without straps today so I think my grip was taking some strength away from the actual movement. I need to increase my weight in skulls by next workout, I have kept the same weight for 4 workouts I think!
How bad is it if I am reaching NEAR failure on my last reps??? If the reps are EXTREMELY slow and difficult to complete, will this hinder my HST...it's only happening on a couple of exercises though.
Week 4 Workout #10 2x10
Pull-ups (4th plate) *I do these palms facing away with a wider-than shoulder width*/BB Incline bench 155 lbs
Squats 205 lbs/Leg curls 105 lbs
Calf raises (Leg press machine) 320 lbs/Standing calf raises 160 lbs
20 min rest
BB rows 145 lbs/BB flat bench 185 lbs
DB shoulder press 110 lbs
BB curls 75 lbs/Skulls 70 lbs
Rear-delt raises 25 lbs/Shrugs 230 lbs
Everything feels pretty heavy at this point. Rows, curls, and shoulder press being the most difficult. I had to cluster the last couple of reps on the 2nd set of shoulder press and on curls I needed three mini sets to finish the last 10 reps. Rows are beating me up at this point...I tried to do them without straps today so I think my grip was taking some strength away from the actual movement. I need to increase my weight in skulls by next workout, I have kept the same weight for 4 workouts I think!
How bad is it if I am reaching NEAR failure on my last reps??? If the reps are EXTREMELY slow and difficult to complete, will this hinder my HST...it's only happening on a couple of exercises though.
_tim
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where in your cycle you are, but getting to NEAR failure is part of the game for the later parts of the cycle for each rep range. So, when you get to the upper limits of your 15's, if you're not nearing failure, your loads are probably set too low. BUT - if you're still early on in your cycle (or rep range), there's a possibility that you're overreaching a bit. If that's the case, don't worry about it - I'd guess everyone on this board has done it before.
Heck, I know in my first cycle I had to reset at least twice.
Regardless, your numbers and progression look good.
Heck, I know in my first cycle I had to reset at least twice.
Regardless, your numbers and progression look good.
9/20
Week 4 Workout #11 2x10
Chins BW (neutral grip)/BB incline bench 155 lbs
Squats 215 lbs/Leg curls 110 lbs
Calf raises 340 lbs/BB flat bench 185 lbs
BB rows 145 lbs/DB shoulder press 120 lbs
BB curls 75 lbs/Skulls 80 lbs
Felt like a good workout. Pretty much finished 2x10 of all sets without any clustering other than BB curls, and it was pretty slow going toward the end of the squats but I finished them. Tried a neutral grip for chins today and increased the weight to BW without any assist (not sure how much I liked these to be honest, but the ROM is much greater than wide-grip pulls). Skulls ended up being 2x9...couldn't get the last rep on either set.
Just an FYI: My strength seems to be increasing, but my weight is decreasing and my BF is staying the same. So...I am losing muscle, and I feel like it shows in the mirror! NOT GOOD!
Week 4 Workout #11 2x10
Chins BW (neutral grip)/BB incline bench 155 lbs
Squats 215 lbs/Leg curls 110 lbs
Calf raises 340 lbs/BB flat bench 185 lbs
BB rows 145 lbs/DB shoulder press 120 lbs
BB curls 75 lbs/Skulls 80 lbs
Felt like a good workout. Pretty much finished 2x10 of all sets without any clustering other than BB curls, and it was pretty slow going toward the end of the squats but I finished them. Tried a neutral grip for chins today and increased the weight to BW without any assist (not sure how much I liked these to be honest, but the ROM is much greater than wide-grip pulls). Skulls ended up being 2x9...couldn't get the last rep on either set.
Just an FYI: My strength seems to be increasing, but my weight is decreasing and my BF is staying the same. So...I am losing muscle, and I feel like it shows in the mirror! NOT GOOD!
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(soflsun @ Sep. 18 2007,20:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Since my reps change throughout each mesocycle, I just thought it would be better to have 1 less varaiable and make sure that the weight progressed (or at least never decreased) each workout. Other than that, I don't have anything against zigzaging...why do you think your most strength and hypertrophy occured while during a zigzag setup?</div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST builds strength sure enough, however, the actual manifestation of that strength depends on the recovery of the CNS (and other neuromuscular factors) from workout to workout. Sometimes a person will gain a little ground on their CNS recovery and their strength output will go up. Those who zigzag are more likely to experience significant "strength" gains mid cycle.</div>
(soflsun @ Sep. 18 2007,20:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Since my reps change throughout each mesocycle, I just thought it would be better to have 1 less varaiable and make sure that the weight progressed (or at least never decreased) each workout. Other than that, I don't have anything against zigzaging...why do you think your most strength and hypertrophy occured while during a zigzag setup?</div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST builds strength sure enough, however, the actual manifestation of that strength depends on the recovery of the CNS (and other neuromuscular factors) from workout to workout. Sometimes a person will gain a little ground on their CNS recovery and their strength output will go up. Those who zigzag are more likely to experience significant "strength" gains mid cycle.</div>
Well, its confirmed! I have a weaker grip than a girl...and I mean a girly girl. I can't even come close to clicking the COC #1 with either hand, actually I can hardly move them more than 1 inch. I wasted my money for sure! According to the directions, it wouldn't be smart for grip strength or hand health to use a gripper than is this difficult for me. Plus, I have nothing for a warm-up. Anyone, want to sell a used pair of Trainers? I probably won't be able to move them either...
9/22
Week 4 Workout #12 Last Day 10's
Chins BW (neutral grip)/BB incline bench 165 lbs
Squats 215 lbs/Leg curls 110 lbs
Calf raises 340 lbs/BB flat bench 185 lbs
BB rows 155 lbs/DB shoulder press 120 lbs
BB curls 75 lbs/Skulls 80 lbs (1x9)
Shrugs 230 lbs/DB rear-delt raises (incline bench) 20 lbs
Tough workout! Even though my weights didn't increase much or at all on many exercises, this was definitely tougher than my last workout. I had to cluster the the last couple of reps on many sets, and felt overall weak and a bit burned out. I think because the last workout was challenging, I may have needed an extra day of recovery! The workout was also very long, 90 minutes or so. I can't lie...I am starting to miss my old split body routine. It was a quicker workout and gave my body more time to heal: I'm not convinced that 48 hours or less is enough time between grueling workouts.
Week 4 Workout #12 Last Day 10's
Chins BW (neutral grip)/BB incline bench 165 lbs
Squats 215 lbs/Leg curls 110 lbs
Calf raises 340 lbs/BB flat bench 185 lbs
BB rows 155 lbs/DB shoulder press 120 lbs
BB curls 75 lbs/Skulls 80 lbs (1x9)
Shrugs 230 lbs/DB rear-delt raises (incline bench) 20 lbs
Tough workout! Even though my weights didn't increase much or at all on many exercises, this was definitely tougher than my last workout. I had to cluster the the last couple of reps on many sets, and felt overall weak and a bit burned out. I think because the last workout was challenging, I may have needed an extra day of recovery! The workout was also very long, 90 minutes or so. I can't lie...I am starting to miss my old split body routine. It was a quicker workout and gave my body more time to heal: I'm not convinced that 48 hours or less is enough time between grueling workouts.
9/26
Week 5 Workout #13 First day of 5's (but it wasn't)
Chins BW+25/Dips BW+25 10x3 superset
Leg press 360 lbs/DB shoulder press 120 lbs 3x10 superset
BB curls 85 lbs 10x3
So I changed alot this workout, and took an extra couple days of rest! Dropped 7 exercises and changed the rep shemes, but still hit a full-body workout. I dropped all iso's except for curls, and substitued squats for leg presses just to give my body a feel at somethig else (I still plan on squats being the focus of my quad workout though). I enjoyed the 10 sets of 3 scheme (10x3), and it did allow my to drastically increase my weights while keeping the reps high. I did 30 reps with all of my exercises (either 10x3 or 3x10). It was nice to get out of the gym in less than an hour for a change. Also, I have been training my grip on off days with the COC #1's and I can almost get a click with both hands
I will most likely tweak this a bit more. I want a minimum of 6-7 exercises but I'n not sure of the breakdown yet. This is still in line with my HST cycle since I am increasing my loads, not going to failure, and staying at sub-max poundages. The reps schemes ae different, but that doesn't really matter since many members keep volume constant anyway, and cluster when the sets become to difficult.
Week 5 Workout #13 First day of 5's (but it wasn't)
Chins BW+25/Dips BW+25 10x3 superset
Leg press 360 lbs/DB shoulder press 120 lbs 3x10 superset
BB curls 85 lbs 10x3
So I changed alot this workout, and took an extra couple days of rest! Dropped 7 exercises and changed the rep shemes, but still hit a full-body workout. I dropped all iso's except for curls, and substitued squats for leg presses just to give my body a feel at somethig else (I still plan on squats being the focus of my quad workout though). I enjoyed the 10 sets of 3 scheme (10x3), and it did allow my to drastically increase my weights while keeping the reps high. I did 30 reps with all of my exercises (either 10x3 or 3x10). It was nice to get out of the gym in less than an hour for a change. Also, I have been training my grip on off days with the COC #1's and I can almost get a click with both hands
I will most likely tweak this a bit more. I want a minimum of 6-7 exercises but I'n not sure of the breakdown yet. This is still in line with my HST cycle since I am increasing my loads, not going to failure, and staying at sub-max poundages. The reps schemes ae different, but that doesn't really matter since many members keep volume constant anyway, and cluster when the sets become to difficult.
_tim
Well-Known Member
I'm so glad to see you changing things up a bit soflsun. Do what YOU feel to be the right thing for YOU. You know the basic principles of HST, and you're doing a good job of keeping your program in line with HST. Just keep going, and apply more when you learn more.
Best of luck with the tweaks!
Best of luck with the tweaks!
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(soflsun @ Sep. 27 2007,13:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, I have been training my grip on off days with the COC #1's and I can almost get a click with both hands </div>
Let us know when you can click the #1 COC, and we'll let you use the men's room again...
(soflsun @ Sep. 27 2007,13:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, I have been training my grip on off days with the COC #1's and I can almost get a click with both hands </div>
Let us know when you can click the #1 COC, and we'll let you use the men's room again...
<div>
(TunnelRat @ Sep. 27 2007,15:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Let us know when you can click the #1 COC, and we'll let you use the men's room again...
</div>
Thanks for the encouragement tim, and Tunnel it will be nice to be allowed to pee standing again.
(TunnelRat @ Sep. 27 2007,15:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Let us know when you can click the #1 COC, and we'll let you use the men's room again...
Thanks for the encouragement tim, and Tunnel it will be nice to be allowed to pee standing again.
9/30
Week 5 Workout #15
BB decline bench 225 lbs 10x3-4
Chins BW 3x8
BB military press 95 lbs 3x8
Seated calf raises 125 lbs 4x6
Various curls 12x2-3
Couldn't do squats or deads becasue my lower back is really sore...not sure why, maybe bad form on my rows last workout? Military press was a joke after doing heavy sets of bench, need to figure out how to break up shoulders and chest and still maintain a full-body workout!
Week 5 Workout #15
BB decline bench 225 lbs 10x3-4
Chins BW 3x8
BB military press 95 lbs 3x8
Seated calf raises 125 lbs 4x6
Various curls 12x2-3
Couldn't do squats or deads becasue my lower back is really sore...not sure why, maybe bad form on my rows last workout? Military press was a joke after doing heavy sets of bench, need to figure out how to break up shoulders and chest and still maintain a full-body workout!
RUSS
Member
There is a definite conditioning factor to low rep/high set routines , you could trim back to 8x3's at first and still be moving a significantly higher total load. The first week using 10x3's for the first time can be rough , but the body adapts it's conditioning pretty quick and it gets easier fast.
I've found chest supported rows to be a great "fit" in terms of real world lowerback strain and recovery from deads. I roll the bar under my bench (set flat), place a pillow on it for extra padding and tend to be more on my abdomen then my chest (go figure) , I take a breathe and tighten everything before each pull and deload completely in between each rep. At first it was a little uncomfortable (the front torso pressure) but in no time at all my front "toughened up" and it all came together so that now it feels quite natural. The benefits are that lower back is taken out to a GREAT degree , and that form is "forced to be perfect" , because of the perfect 90 degree angle and inability to cheat in any way these are Hella effective. Kind of like a pendlay but without ANY strain on lower back . To improve bench pull with your hands , to get maximal back hypertrophy pull with elbows (mentally - you know what I mean) Of course if you work out in a gym , they have chest support row machines but no pillow!
Since you are using a higher number of movements , (10x3's are usually associated with more abbreviated routines) you may consider approaching chest and shoulders from the alternating heavy/light point of view . example:
a) chest 10x3
shoulders 2x12
b) shoulders 10x3
chest 2x12
In fact you may resolve most of your concerns by utilizing a 2x12 as a contrast to the 10(or 8)x3 whenever dealing with overlapping movements, good to see you giving it a go , hope something from this helps.
I've found chest supported rows to be a great "fit" in terms of real world lowerback strain and recovery from deads. I roll the bar under my bench (set flat), place a pillow on it for extra padding and tend to be more on my abdomen then my chest (go figure) , I take a breathe and tighten everything before each pull and deload completely in between each rep. At first it was a little uncomfortable (the front torso pressure) but in no time at all my front "toughened up" and it all came together so that now it feels quite natural. The benefits are that lower back is taken out to a GREAT degree , and that form is "forced to be perfect" , because of the perfect 90 degree angle and inability to cheat in any way these are Hella effective. Kind of like a pendlay but without ANY strain on lower back . To improve bench pull with your hands , to get maximal back hypertrophy pull with elbows (mentally - you know what I mean) Of course if you work out in a gym , they have chest support row machines but no pillow!
Since you are using a higher number of movements , (10x3's are usually associated with more abbreviated routines) you may consider approaching chest and shoulders from the alternating heavy/light point of view . example:
a) chest 10x3
shoulders 2x12
b) shoulders 10x3
chest 2x12
In fact you may resolve most of your concerns by utilizing a 2x12 as a contrast to the 10(or 8)x3 whenever dealing with overlapping movements, good to see you giving it a go , hope something from this helps.
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(RUSS @ Oct. 01 2007,10:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've found chest supported rows to be a great "fit" in terms of real world lowerback strain and recovery from deads. I roll the bar under my bench (set flat), place a pillow on it for extra padding and tend to be more on my abdomen then my chest (go figure) , I take a breathe and tighten everything before each pull and deload completely in between each rep. At first it was a little uncomfortable (the front torso pressure) but in no time at all my front "toughened up" and it all came together so that now it feels quite natural. The benefits are that lower back is taken out to a GREAT degree , and that form is "forced to be perfect" , because of the perfect 90 degree angle and inability to cheat in any way these are Hella effective. Kind of like a pendlay but without ANY strain on lower back .
</div>
Yup, when I'm doing a standard HST routine, I like to do a Lying Dumbbell Row in lieu of a Bent Over Row. I find that my lower back takes a pretty good beating already from my squats and deads.
Lying on a bench takes the lower back out of the equation and lets me concentrate on the misery in my upper back.
(RUSS @ Oct. 01 2007,10:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've found chest supported rows to be a great "fit" in terms of real world lowerback strain and recovery from deads. I roll the bar under my bench (set flat), place a pillow on it for extra padding and tend to be more on my abdomen then my chest (go figure) , I take a breathe and tighten everything before each pull and deload completely in between each rep. At first it was a little uncomfortable (the front torso pressure) but in no time at all my front "toughened up" and it all came together so that now it feels quite natural. The benefits are that lower back is taken out to a GREAT degree , and that form is "forced to be perfect" , because of the perfect 90 degree angle and inability to cheat in any way these are Hella effective. Kind of like a pendlay but without ANY strain on lower back .
</div>
Yup, when I'm doing a standard HST routine, I like to do a Lying Dumbbell Row in lieu of a Bent Over Row. I find that my lower back takes a pretty good beating already from my squats and deads.
Lying on a bench takes the lower back out of the equation and lets me concentrate on the misery in my upper back.
Russ,
Thanks for the input. How are you able to get a full extension using a flat bench? Doesn't the floor get in the way? Sounds great though. I didn't thik that 5 exercises was too much for the 10x3 routine...I will definitely do a lighter load/higher reps with either shoulders or chest depending on the workout, but I'm wondering if I even need a straight delt exercise with heavy chest. I noticed that Westbury leaves them out in several of his full-body workouts.
I'm gonna definitely give it a go Tunnel. Thanks much!
Thanks for the input. How are you able to get a full extension using a flat bench? Doesn't the floor get in the way? Sounds great though. I didn't thik that 5 exercises was too much for the 10x3 routine...I will definitely do a lighter load/higher reps with either shoulders or chest depending on the workout, but I'm wondering if I even need a straight delt exercise with heavy chest. I noticed that Westbury leaves them out in several of his full-body workouts.
I'm gonna definitely give it a go Tunnel. Thanks much!
RUSS
Member
<div>
(soflsun @ Oct. 01 2007,19:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> How are you able to get a full extension using a flat bench? Doesn't the floor get in the way? </div>
I am not able to get full ROM using my bench for CS rows , I personally think the ROM is enough , when coupled with the above mentioned benefits to make them my second most important back movement (after deads). What I do though in my case to address this , is to keep regular BB rows in my routines (usually alternated with deads from back w/o to back w/o).
Example:
mon- push
tues- deads
CS rows
upright rows
thurs- push
fri- CS rows
BB rows
upright rows
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm wondering if I even need a straight delt exercise with heavy chest. I noticed that Westbury leaves them out in several of his full-body workouts.
</div>
IMHO upright rows "fit" better with flat and or incline than military press in terms of having enough "ooomph" left until conditioning is capable of military after an 8-10x3 of one or even two benching movements. You will need some side delt stimulation , front and back are hit just fine between presses ,rows and deads. This is a case where an "iso" , perhaps side delt raises , makes sense(to me).
(soflsun @ Oct. 01 2007,19:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> How are you able to get a full extension using a flat bench? Doesn't the floor get in the way? </div>
I am not able to get full ROM using my bench for CS rows , I personally think the ROM is enough , when coupled with the above mentioned benefits to make them my second most important back movement (after deads). What I do though in my case to address this , is to keep regular BB rows in my routines (usually alternated with deads from back w/o to back w/o).
Example:
mon- push
tues- deads
CS rows
upright rows
thurs- push
fri- CS rows
BB rows
upright rows
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm wondering if I even need a straight delt exercise with heavy chest. I noticed that Westbury leaves them out in several of his full-body workouts.
</div>
IMHO upright rows "fit" better with flat and or incline than military press in terms of having enough "ooomph" left until conditioning is capable of military after an 8-10x3 of one or even two benching movements. You will need some side delt stimulation , front and back are hit just fine between presses ,rows and deads. This is a case where an "iso" , perhaps side delt raises , makes sense(to me).
TunnelRat
Active Member
<div>
(RUSS @ Oct. 02 2007,09:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(soflsun @ Oct. 01 2007,19:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> How are you able to get a full extension using a flat bench? Doesn't the floor get in the way? </div>
I am not able to get full ROM using my bench for CS rows</div>
Whereas I just put the flat bench up on blocks such that I have to stre-e-e-e-etch my arms to reach the dumbbells...
(RUSS @ Oct. 02 2007,09:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(soflsun @ Oct. 01 2007,19:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> How are you able to get a full extension using a flat bench? Doesn't the floor get in the way? </div>
I am not able to get full ROM using my bench for CS rows</div>
Whereas I just put the flat bench up on blocks such that I have to stre-e-e-e-etch my arms to reach the dumbbells...