5x5 questions

O

Owndawg

New Member
I`m planning to try Bill Starr`s 5x5 on monday, I guess some of you are familiar with that program.
I tested my maxes one week ago, so i got some SD.

My 5RM`s were:
Squat   92,5   kg
Bench   90      kg
Rows    75      kg
Military  60      kg
Deads  117,5  kg

Should i put my maxes at week 4 or is it ok to put it at week 3?
Is this a good program for my strenghtlevel, or should I go for a another program with higher progression than 2,5 kg for the biggest lifts per week?
should I ramp the weights on assistancework?
Is it okay to cluster reps to avoid failure when it gets heavy on this program?
And there is no assistancework for calves, should i add some or is it a waste of time?

Thanks for any help
smile.gif
 
I've been reading about this program this week, but left the stuff I'd printed out at home, so this is the best I can do off the top of my head.

1. most people put the maxes at week 4. it's better to err on the side of putting them later than earlier, so I wouldn't put them at week 3;
2. w/o knowing your age height or weight, I can't adequately judge your approx. strength level, but I would put it at "novice" if I had to guess. that isn't an insult, some say you're a beginner until you can bench 1.5 X, squat 2 X & DL 2.5 X BW. Starr's is a proven program & one that people often transition to after Starting Strength or HST. there are Bill Starr programs for beginners, intermediates, & advanced lifters though- be sure to learn the differences & select appropriately;
3. don't ramp up the weights on assistance work. you probably don't even need assistance work at your level ;
4. I don't have an answer to clustering, but I'd guess "no." just stop the set short when the going gets really slow;
5. Bill Starr probably left calves out for a reason. don't monkey w/ the program too much at this time.

there is a good FAQ for Rippetoe's Starting Strength at bodybuilding.com & a good description of Bill Starr's 5 x 5 at madcow's site (try googling madcow 5x5). I think Bill Starr's book is hard to find, but you can get Starting Strength from Amazon. fwiw, Rippetoe & Kilgore are supposed to have a book aimed at the novice trainee coming out this year.

hope this helps a little. my fingers are tired
laugh.gif
 
It's a strength program so it's good for any strength level.

The best reading I've found so far about the 5x5 is HERE

To be perfectly honest with you, although I'm doing 5x5 right now, HST is the best pure mass building program that I've ever done. Since strength specific training is going to take me closer to my current goals, I'm doing 5x5. However, when the time comes to work on getting bigger instead of just stronger I'll be coming back home to HST with more strength to use on the program.

If your goal is getting stronger with a nice side effect of getting bigger, then 5x5 is good. If it's just to get bigger, stick with HST.

To answer your question about where to start at, I would suggest this, kind of like taking a two week block in HST and subtracting 5 or 10lbs (whatever your progression is) for each workout, you can do almost the same with 5x5.

Just take 8-12 (for 8-12 weeks) increments instead of 6 from your 1RM Do one increment per week. If you are squatting for example 200x1. Then you will start at 120x5 and ramp your sets up to that weight the first workout (heavy day). The next one you will ramp up the same as your first 3 sets from the first one (light day) then the 4th set will be a repeat of the 3rd set. The third workout is a repeat of workout 1.

Next week, you add 5lbs, 10lbs, or whatever your chosen progression is and do it all over again.

Like this:

Squat day 1: 80, 90, 100, 110, 120
Squat day 2: 80, 90, 100, 100
Squat day 3: 80, 90, 100, 110, 120

Next week
Squat day 1: 90, 100, 110, 120, 130
Squat day 2: 90, 100, 110, 110
Squat day 3: 90, 100, 110, 120, 130

You will apply the same method to each of your big lifts (squat, dead, bench, row), that's the ones I use because I can't do the olympic lifts so I replaced them with these.

The accessory lifts like crunches, overhead press, pullup(or lat pull), curls, skull crushers (or tricep pushdowns) are done either 3-4 sets of 4-6 reps or 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps...whatever turns you on.

It sounds a little complicated, but it really isn't that bad once you get into it. Like I said before though, if you just want size stick with HST. If you want strength so HST can make you freakin huge - then do 5x5 occasionally.

About the calves. If you are doing deep ATG olympic style squats and deadlifting, you won't need much direct calf work. Again, it's a strength program, not really bodybuilding (looking like a bodybuilder from it is a nice side effect though), so each muscle isn't directly trained specifically like it would be on a pure bodybuilding program.
 
All good advice, but a little difference for me: I'm on the intermediate 5x5, and I'd set my maxes at week 4. But I've arrived at week five, am beyond my maxes and am still progressing linearly. It feels like week EIGHT!
Anyway, the extra strength has broken me past some sticking points, my legs are FINALLY showing a little growth, and it's been a nice break from so many exersizes. Like V, I'll enjoy a return to HST, and plan to alternate with this program.
Workout 3, or friday, is a beast; adding in arms that day will wipe you. Next cycle I may either add one day of pullups to my t-bar rows, or just switch to cable rows, since I think I lost some lat width while gaining pecs: my numbers stayed the same.

You shouldn't need to cluster reps. It's only five reps anyway! If you don't make the set, just rework that weight next workout. You'll get it then.
 
<div>
(Owndawg @ Jan. 26 2007,06:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I`m planning to try Bill Starr`s 5x5 on monday, I guess some of you are familiar with that program.
I tested my maxes one week ago, so i got some SD.

My 5RM`s were:
Squat   92,5   kg
Bench   90      kg
Rows    75      kg
Military  60      kg
Deads  117,5  kg

Should i put my maxes at week 4 or is it ok to put it at week 3?




Thanks for any help
smile.gif
</div>
Put them either at the 3rd, 4th or 5th week. It doesn't really matter. If you're doing linear or dual factor 5x5 approach the first portion is usually cumulative fatigue. The real crux of the matter is knowing when to stop and deload and peak or just deload. It's quite possible you'll be able to go beyond your maxes for a few weeks.

Here is the MadCow 5x5 page someone mentioned previously. It's a very good resource on the subject.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Is this a good program for my strenght level, or should I go for a another program with higher progression than 2,5 kg for the biggest lifts per week?</div>

It's a good program for any strength level. How you increase the weight is up to you. I have a spreadsheet that will do it for you and increase by percentages rounded to the nearest 5lb increment if you'd like it. Send me a pm with your email if you would like.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">should I ramp the weights on assistancework?</div>

No. Assistance work is done straight and usually in the 8 rep range or so.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Is it okay to cluster reps to avoid failure when it gets heavy on this program?</div>

Generally speaking you can do whatever pleases you. However this program is more oriented towards traditional strength, as in, &quot;I can bench Xlbs for Y reps.&quot; However what I would suggest is you look into Max Stimulation techniques as I think that method of workout, specifically reps with M time, might be better suited for incorporating into a 5x5 routine. Fatigue is already incorporated, M time will help you manage it and people report good strength gains with MaxStim. It's a better technique than forced reps or rest pause, etc.

If you're doing linear though and find you're reaching your 5 rep max in any given exercise what I'd say to do is repeat that weight next time around. Go a week or so repeating, and if you've stalled on two or more lifts then head into a 3x3 deloading phase as per the dual factor method.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And there is no assistancework for calves, should i add some or is it a waste of time?</div>

Totally up to you. But as someone mentioned the last workout of the week is pretty brutal as it is. If you're going to add calf work I'd put it in somewhere else and make it light.
 
I just re-read the sheets I'd printed out and found two interesting things: one is I've been starting my warmups pretty high and ramping from there - I may have more strength if I start a bit lower. I'll try for the 12-1/2% tomorrow.
Also, he even recommended that it's okay to do extra assistance work, specifically pullups, on day two. Perfect for my needs, I'll add them in now instead of waiting.

I feel like a kid at Christmas! Got some new toys to play with!
 
On fridays there is two assistance-exercises for triceps: dips and pushdowns... is it ok to dro one of them?

seems a bit wasted to do that much on the triceps..
 
the intermediate program has this on friday: Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps) So I do wide dips for chest, and skullcrushers or narrow dips for tri's, depending on my mood.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top