aromtization

[imported_fearofthedark]

Little bit of a biochemical question.

I hear alot about high levels of testosterone aromatizing into estrogen.

http://www.wissensdrang.com/media/wis2d.gif

Testosterone looks very much like estrogen. I can see how it aromatizes in the carbon ring furthest to the left. It also looks like the carbonyl group on carbon 1 of testosterone is swtiched with a hydroxyl group. The new aromaticity in estrogen appears to be more stable. Is it also a favorable reaction to convert testosterone into estrogen?

QUESTION:
Steroids increase testosterone levels. Excess testosterone from cycles is why there is fear of aromatization. Is this sort of like Le Chatellier's principle, in which adding more testosterone (like adding to the left side of the reaction), it will equlibrate this stress by making more product (estrogen) and shifting to the right of the reaction? What kind of T levels are we talking about in which aromatization occurs?

Thank you

 

[xahrx]

It occurs at all levels. Of all the test your body makes naturally some aromatizes to estrogen. This is normal, and normal estrogen levels are nothing to worry about. Through a mix of hormone receptors on hypothalumus your body 'knows' the normal levels. When your androgen levels go up if it's an aromatizing hormone your estrogen levels go up proportionately. When your body senses high estrogen, it shuts down test production to compensate for this straying outside normal levels. I believe in supraphysiological levels DHT and E2 also play important roles in regulating testosterone. It's the high estrogen and also the low testosterone to estrogen ratio post cycle that presents a threat of side effects.

 

[imported_fearofthedark]

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Aug. 19 2005,11:25)]It occurs at all levels.  Of all the test your body makes naturally some aromatizes to estrogen.  This is normal, and normal estrogen levels are nothing to worry about.  Through a mix of hormone receptors on hypothalumus your body 'knows' the normal levels.  When your androgen levels go up if it's an aromatizing hormone your estrogen levels go up proportionately.  When your body senses high estrogen, it shuts down test production to compensate for this straying outside normal levels.  I believe in supraphysiological levels DHT and E2 also play important roles in regulating testosterone.  It's the high estrogen and also the low testosterone to estrogen ratio post cycle that presents a threat of side effects.

Quote[/b] ]When your body senses high estrogen, it shuts down test production to compensate for this straying outside normal levels

Let me see if i understand:

1. excessive amounts of T (lets say from steroids), yields excessive amount of estrogen

2. when the estrogen is high, your body slows down T production because it knows this excess estrogen is coming from excess T

3. less T is made, therefore less estrogen is made; homeostasis is acheived

Everyone and their mothers talks about the scenario in which you have so much testosterone from steroids, you stop making your own (not stop per se, but you make alot less). Im guessing this is what youre saying happens, is that the testes will make less since the hypothalamus saw too much estrogen and therfore slowed T production down.

Lets say you supplement with an aromotization inhibitor like nolvadex. If the hypothalamus never sees high amounts of estrogen due to nolvadex, can you get away with it? Or will that fail on you once you stop taking the aromotization inhbitor because then you will have super high T levels and nothing will hold it back from aromatizing.

I greatly appreciate your help

 

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (fearofthedark @ Aug. 19 2005,3:09)]

Quote[/b] ]1. excessive amounts of T (lets say from steroids), yields excessive amount of estrogen

Supraphysiological technically. There's a range on normal but excess doesn't really fit. Doesn't have to be testosterone either, any steroid that activates the same receptors.

Quote[/b] ]2. when the estrogen is high, your body slows down T production because it knows this excess estrogen is coming from excess T

That's one loop. Your hypothalumus also senses testosterone levels directly, as well as DHT and E2 which like I said also play major roles.

Quote[/b] ]3. less T is made, therefore less estrogen is made; homeostasis is acheived

Thing is homeostasis isn't achieved because during a cycle you have or are supposed to have consistently supraphysiological levels. At a certain point your body's natural test hits a homeostatic low level, or shuts down completely. However, the artifical hormones aromatize so estrogen levels stay high. You're basically artificially replacing testosterone so estrogen and the artifical hormone levels stay high, only your natural testosterone is reduced to very low levels. The artificial hormone also metabolizes into different hormones, analogs of the way testosterone metabolizes, and these can sometimes have greater or lower activity than the parent hormone.

Quote[/b] ]Everyone and their mothers talks about the scenario in which you have so much testosterone from steroids, you stop making your own (not stop per se, but you make alot less). Im guessing this is what youre saying happens, is that the testes will make less since the hypothalamus saw too much estrogen and therfore slowed T production down.

Yup. The hypothalumus sees to much estrogen, stops signalling the pituatary which stops signalling the testes which shuts down natural testosterone production.

Quote[/b] ]Lets say you supplement with an aromotization inhibitor like nolvadex. If the hypothalamus never sees high amounts of estrogen due to nolvadex, can you get away with it? Or will that fail on you once you stop taking the aromotization inhbitor because then you will have super high T levels and nothing will hold it back from aromatizing.
I greatly appreciate your help

It would if that were the only feedback loop involved in hormone regulation and you could dose both the hormone and aromatase inhibitor accurately enough that your body still 'saw' natural levels. The two major loops that regulate test production are the hypothalumus' detection of testosterone (direct feedback) and estrogen (negative feedback). Other hormones are also involved to a lesser extent. If you could control these two major loops you could conceivably run a cycle for a lot longer than normal. You wouldn't need just an AI or a SERM though. You'd need something like what Ultra HOT from ALRI claims to be, a combination of AI and SARM, a selective androgen receptor modulator. It would also need to be dosed properly, and then that would eliminate the two major feedback loops from being affected.

Also a correct, Nolvadex isn't an AI, it's a SERM. An AI block the formation of estrogen, a SERM will just block estrogen's activity in some tissues. Serum levels of estrogen would still be high if using an aromatizing hormone and a SERM like Nolvadex, you would just be blocking its effects.

 

[imported_fearofthedark]

never going to use AAS... thank you so much

 

[Tcup]

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