creatine cycling?

shakeel

New Member
You are right that creatine is a nutritional supplement and not a steroid. But there are still proven, researched benefits to cycling in terms of the effectiveness of this supplement. You can greatly enhance the POWER of creatine to work for you through cycling. You don't cycle to simply "go off of it for awhile".. because as you said, it's not a steroid. Instead, the REASON you cycle is to allow your body to get the best use of creatine. Let me explain the science for you since you value research and knowledge.

As far as absorption into your system, because your body already makes creatine, it does not readily absorb it at first. This is why you load for 5 days. If all you did was begin to take 5g a day, it would eventually get into your system. But it would take longer than loading. When you load, most of the 10g is excreted through urination.. but SOME of it is absorbed. (Like a vitamin to an extent.) After your load phase and absorption, your body actually stops producing its own creatine, because it "recognizes" it doesn't need to (it will start again when you quit supplementing), as you are supplementing it. It actually "closes" many of its receptor sites that make and absorb creatine at that point. This is why any more than 5g is a waste to ingest! (YOU already know this, but many people don't.) Agreed?

Ok. So, your body is getting the MOST it can out of creatine at this point. Now, if you STOP the creatine for 2-3 weeks (which is the "window" for this cycling).. something begins to happen. Creatine has a long half-life.. and it will stay in your body for 2-3 weeks after you quit taking it. In the meantime, since you have stopped taking it, your body begins to detect this and "re-opens" its receptor sites, in preparation for creatine-making again. At the 2 week point, you still have much of the supplement in your system AND your body has re-opened its sites. THIS is where true gain can happen.

IF you load again at that 2-3 week point, then you already have more creatine in your system from "last time" AND your receptors are open to accepting MORE creatine. In essence, you load again for 10g a day and your cells can reach a super-saturation of creatine, greater than what was possible the first time. THIS is the benefit of cycling.

You get NO benefit from taking more than 5 grams a day.. your cells cannot accept more than that at that point. The ONLY way to have your cells accept more is this cycling portion of it. The super-saturation helps people break training plateus easily.. and get the MOST out of creatine, with less money and cost (since you are not taking it for those 2-3 weeks). The important part to cycling is that you need to be ON creatine for at least a month or 2 before stopping to cycle..otherwise, your body has not yet reached the point where cycling will be of any benefit. ALSO, you cannot wait more than 2-3 weeks to "super saturate". Any longer than that and all the "old" creatine will have gotten out of your system, and you will actually simply be starting a new load phase with no new jolt.
 
Did you make this up yourself, or did someone actually post this on the Internet and you just cut&pasted it here?
 
I believe in cycling everything, just a principle of mine, but where are the references for the above proving that:

1. Receptors become less receptive ?
2. Receptor reactivation occurs while creatine is still high ?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (micmic @ Sep. 19 2003,2:53)]I believe in cycling everything, just a principle of mine, but where are the references for the above proving that:
1. Receptors become less receptive ?
2. Receptor reactivation occurs while creatine is still high ?
just out of curiosity, do you cycle protein, fat, and carbohydrate? or vitamins/minerals?

i never really got this 'cycle everything to be safe mindset.' i'm a big micmic fan, sir, but this mindset makes me go 'huh.' :)
 
Pity there is actually no evidence of perforamnce enhancement.

You can only get so much creatine in the cells, research year after year shows no way of improving this.
So there is no benifit to go away from creatine, and long term creatine exposure seems good for muscle growth in general (I think bryan has referenced an article about this at one point.)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (shakeel @ Sep. 19 2003,4:37)]no cut and paste
If that's the case, please verify the following witih empirical evidence, if possible:

Now, if you STOP the creatine for 2-3 weeks (which is the "window" for this cycling).. something begins to happen. Creatine has a long half-life.. and it will stay in your body for 2-3 weeks after you quit taking it. (of primarily relevence is the time course you're suggesting)

In the meantime, since you have stopped taking it, your body begins to detect this and "re-opens" its receptor sites, in preparation for creatine-making again. (again, time-course)

At the 2 week point, you still have much of the supplement in your system AND your body has re-opened its sites. THIS is where true gain can happen. (I consider this to be the primary unsubstantiated claim)

IF you load again at that 2-3 week point, then you already have more creatine in your system from "last time" AND your receptors are open to accepting MORE creatine. In essence, you load again for 10g a day and your cells can reach a super-saturation of creatine, greater than what was possible the first time. THIS is the benefit of cycling.

Your argument does seem to follow off its own premises (indicating internal consistency, probably), however, I have seen no verification of the premises. Primarily in respect to the time courses involved, and the body's capacity to hold the supranatural amounts of PCr that you're suggesting via cycling.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mikeynov @ Sep. 19 2003,11:56)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (micmic @ Sep. 19 2003,2:53)]I believe in cycling everything, just a principle of mine, but where are the references for the above proving that:
1. Receptors become less receptive ?
2. Receptor reactivation occurs while creatine is still high ?
just out of curiosity, do you cycle protein, fat, and carbohydrate? or vitamins/minerals?
i never really got this 'cycle everything to be safe mindset.' i'm a big micmic fan, sir, but this mindset makes me go 'huh.' :)
Well, I don't always cycle everything but at least I feel guilty when I don't :D Also, cycling isn't necessarily an on/off switch, it may include higher/lower doses. Nor it is necessarily month on/month off. It may be day on/day off.

Supplement-wise, I don't take much, so there's not much to cycle. Vit.c, calcium, magnesium, multivitamin, vit E, cod liver oil, I "cycle" them in my own special way: I take them whenever I remember to (which may translate to 1 week on- 1 week off etc.) From time to time I'll take something else like milk thistle, probiotics, buffering agents etc, but it will only be for a month or two. This leads to interesting conclusions, like "woa, that ECA didn't do much after all".

Cycling macronutrients and calories in a more effective way is the next thing I want to focus on. It could have plenty of benefits. There have been numerous discussions on this forum about protein and calorie cycling, but carbohydrate and fat cycling is also interesting. I've been trying some things in the past but I still have a lot of experimentation to do. What I have observed beyond doubt is that during cutting it really helps to have no-carbs and high-carbs periods, rather than distribute them evenly throughout the day. Same with calories. There is a partitioning advantage that we try to utilize with pre/post workout meals, why not extend it throughout the day ?

As for particular foods, I really cycle them! It happens unconsciously, but I may eat lots of turkey one month, and next month almost exclusively beef etc. Same with fruits, vegetables, etc. The one thing I can't seem to decide to cycle is my protein powder, I really haven't found another brand that I fancy better.
 
Essentially, cycling is unavoidable: Meals is cycling. We don't live on intravenous feeding :). Even if you take creatine everyday, its concetration in a certain tissue would fluctuate throughout the day. Same with all things. Safety is just one aspect. Progression is another. Without "cycles" of blood glucose, hormones, activity etc, we would stall. So, it's not a question of "whether to cycle", it's more of "how to cycle" :)
 
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