CREATINE SUPPLEMENTATION DOES NOT IMPROVE

With such a a small study (n=10, split in two trials) and only a bi-weekly analysis of food intake (per phone mind you). I can't give too much credence to this work. Also seems to be no controls for training variables other than they did an "x" program. Do note that this work goes against an entire body that says otherwise as well.
 
I tend to agee with Cliner9er here, one study doesn't suggest that oral supplementation doesn't cause an additive effect to LBM.

There is a reiview that states this exact idea.

J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2003 Oct;33(10):615-21. Related Articles, Links


Creatine supplementation and athletic performance.

Racette SB.

Nutritional supplements and other ergogenic aids have gained widespread use among professional, amateur, recreational, and student athletes for their potential to enhance athletic performance and provide a competitive edge. Creatine monohydrate is one of the more commonly used and potentially beneficial supplements that currently is viewed to be safe. Supplementation with oral creatine augments skeletal muscle creatine concentrations in most individuals, which has been shown to promote gains in lean body mass when used in conjunction with resistance training, to enhance power and strength, and to improve performance in intense exercise, especially during repeated bouts........ Variability in research study designs and small sample sizes have left many questions unanswered regarding the safety and efficacy of chronic supplementation. This is an active area of clinical investigation and the results of ongoing and future research should guide the appropriate use of creatine to enhance athletic performance among athletes of all ages.

Also there is direct evidence that some respond to Creatine and some do not.

Acute creatine monohydrate supplementation: a descriptive physiological profile of responders vs. nonresponders.

Syrotuik DG, Bell GJ.

The purpose of this study was to describe the physiological profile of responders (>20 mmol.kg(-1) dry weight [dw] increase in total intramuscular creatine monohydrate [Cr] + phosphorylated creatine [PCr]) versus nonresponders (<10 mmol.kg(-1) dw increase) to a 5-day Cr load (0.3 g.kg(-1).d(-1)) in 11 healthy men (mean age = 22.7 years). Pre-post 5-day cellular measures included total resting Cr content (Cr + PCr), fiber type composition, and fiber type cross-sectional area (CSA) determined from muscle biopsies of the vastus lateralis. Body mass, daily dietary intake, 24-hour urine outputs, urinary Cr and creatinine (CrN), and strength performance measures (1 repetition maximum [1RM] bench and leg press) were also assessed before and after the 5-day loading period. Results indicated that there were 3 levels of response to the 5-day supplementation: responders ®, quasi responders (QR), and nonresponders (NR) with mean changes in resting Cr + PCr of 29.5 mmol.kg(-1) dw (n = 3), 14.9 mmol.kg(-1) dw (n = 5), and 5.1 mmol.kg(-1) dw (n = 3), respectively. The results support a person-by-treatment interaction to acute Cr supplementation with R possessing a biological profile of lowest initial levels of Cr + PCr, greatest percentage of type II fibers, and greatest preload muscle fiber CSA and fat-free mass. Responders also showed improvement in 1RM leg press scores following the 5-day loading period. NR had higher preload levels of Cr + PCr, less type II muscle fibers, small preload muscle CSA, and lower fat-free mass and displayed no improvements in 1RM strength scores. The results suggest that to be considered a responder to acute oral supplementation, a favorable preexisting biological profile may determine the final extent to which an individual responds to supplementation. Physiologic profiles of nonresponders appear to be different and may limit their ability to uptake Cr. This may help partially explain the reported equivocal performance findings in the Cr supplementation literature.
 
yeah this is an awful study. For one thing, a 10 person study is crap anyway. Secondly, it excluded people on a high protein diet (???) and admitted that these people were recreationally active but "not well trained." For all we know, it could be a bunch of weekend racquetball players.

Look at their average weights. About 160 pounds? I don't think we are talking about a group of hardcore lifters.

Thanks anyway Sonny.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Secondly, it excluded people on a high protein diet
no, they excluded people on high protein low carb diets... there is a specific difference there... because quite often HPLC diets will result in lowered energy intake, which these researchers were trying to avoid.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]With such a a small study (n=10, split in two trials)
well the cross over does give ~20 total subjects in anaylsis, but its still too low to see a difference

but the authors seem to be stretching the results to show something with the creating and substrate oxidation thing that is travelling around at the moment.
 
I have a semi-on-topic question. While I know the ideal times to take my creatine on w/o days <before and right after>, when is the ideal time to take it on off days? In the morning with breakfast? Before going to work?
Any ideas?
Sphinx
 
SIR, Yes Sir! Consuming creatine as ordered, Sir!
:D
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Thanks for the quick reply Aaron.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BoSox @ Dec. 21 2004,4:37)]yeah this is an awful study. For one thing, a 10 person study is crap anyway. Secondly, it excluded people on a high protein diet (???) and admitted that these people were recreationally active but "not well trained." For all we know, it could be a bunch of weekend racquetball players.
Look at their average weights. About 160 pounds? I don't think we are talking about a group of hardcore lifters.
Thanks anyway Sonny.
BoSox
<span style='color:red'>I’m only the messenger!!</span>
<span style='color:green'>I thought it was a little screwed up as well.
As O&amp;G points out, I too have seen extra gains when I first started using it.
However, I’m not sure now, having been using it for a number of years.
I think that I was deficient when I first started taking it.
Hence the initial gains.
I remember reading somewhere that the Gladiators or of the ancient Roman Olympics consumed enormous amounts of red meat. Which contains a good amount of Creatine.
Whereas may answer some of the questions of how they were to have accomplished some of their athletic feats of strength without any other dietary supplement.
Then again! Maybe not.
Thanks
Sonny
In beautiful warm Florida
Merry Christmas</span>
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 21 2004,10:28)]dont worry about when, just take it
i could make the argument that a pre-WO dose will top off stores quicker per higher uptake than taking it whenever but this makes the nth degree difference at the end of the day.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 21 2004,4:49)]but the authors seem to be stretching the results to show something with the creating and substrate oxidation thing that is travelling around at the moment.
it will pass. I also throw out about aything with a verbal food record, especially a phone journal. We looked at our journals last year and there was a 100% error rate in some.
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Sonny

To find out if there is still a benefit to Creatine to you why don't you stop taking it for 2 months and see if there is a difference in your strength levels? If so, take it again and see what happens. We could all benefit from your findings.

Meery Christmas back at you from the frozen state of Connecticut.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Cliner9er @ Dec. 23 2004,2:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 21 2004,4:49)]but the authors seem to be stretching the results to show something with the creating and substrate oxidation thing that is travelling around at the moment.
it will pass. I also throw out about aything with a verbal food record, especially a phone journal. We looked at our journals last year and there was a 100% error rate in some.
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Thats cos people lie :)

even if they dont think they are, its too easy to forget ####, especially when it comes to dieting...

but thats a metabolic advantage for ya :D
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