Macronutrient Make-up of a Good Diet

[corvettecris]

I am 5'10'', 200lbs, 12% bf, and consider myself mesomorphic, in nature. I have been struggling with tons of conflicting information on what sort of macronutrient split is the best for a bodybuilding diet. Here is what I gather so far:

Protein: 1g per lbs of bodyweight. My only question on this is should you consider total mass, or only fat-free mass?

Fats: approx 25% of your daily caloric intake.

Carbs: the rest of what isn't used for protein and fat.

So is this correct? So no matter how many calories I eat, I should alwas consume about the same amount of protein? This debunks my previous 40/40/20 ratio method, but I'm beggining to think ratios are not an efficient way of constructing a diet.

My final question is this: When you are bulking, is it best to cycle you calories? For examply, when I start my 1st HST cycle next week, should I start off at where I am now @ slightly above BMR (2600 kcal for me), and then add some calories each week until I reach about a 1 lbs gain in weight a week, or should I just jump right into a 3500-4000 calorie diet, and adjust from there?

How many calories do you add at a time, 500?

Thanks,
Cris

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ]Protein: 1g per lbs of bodyweight. My only question on this is should you consider total mass, or only fat-free mass?

Use FFM

Quote[/b] ]So is this correct? So no matter how many calories I eat, I should alwas consume about the same amount of protein? This debunks my previous 40/40/20 ratio method, but I'm beggining to think ratios are not an efficient way of constructing a diet.

Ratios are ok, you just aren't following the optimal one. 40% protein is too high. Read this thread: Nutrition and other stuff

Quote[/b] ]My final question is this: When you are bulking, is it best to cycle you calories? For examply, when I start my 1st HST cycle next week, should I start off at where I am now @ slightly above BMR (2600 kcal for me), and then add some calories each week until I reach about a 1 lbs gain in weight a week, or should I just jump right into a 3500-4000 calorie diet, and adjust from there?

Depends on your BF. If you are 15% or up, better to cut first. If you are in the low BF zone, just bulk normally. If you are within 10-15% already, you may eat at maintenance while in the lighter phases to try to cut, then bulk up during the heavy phases.

 

[Rotlex]

I realize different things work differently for everyone, and nutrition can be one of the most confusing, and yet most important, aspects of training. I do however know what works for me, and I'm right around you size. (roughly 5'11", 195-200lb @12-13%bf).

Anywho, I've tried just about everything out there, low carb, high carb, anything in between, and have come to the conclusion that what matters most for ME is total caloric intake, with a catch of course. I always shoot for at least 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight, total body weight. At my current weight, that means usually 300 grams per day give or take. The rest of my calories are usually split fairly even between carbs and fat, with the exception of my post workout shake. I use no fat here, other than what little is in the whey and oats. I also generally shoot for a 2:1 ratio in the shake, as far as carbs to protein. (standard PWO shake is 80g carbs from dex and ground oats, and 40g from whey).

The rest of the day I eat VERY clean. Don't get me wrong, I eat a LOT, averaging 3500 cals per day, but it's all lean meats, oats, sprouted grain breads and veggies. (Ok, ok, my wife does make an awesome no sugar low carb cheese cake, LOL).

As far as increasing calories, I learned the hard way, quiet a few months ago, I wasn't eating nearly enough. I was so worried about adding body fat, that I averaged 2200-2500 per day, and couldn't figure out why the heck I wasn't growing. Well, after lots of reading, I realized if I wanted to get big, I had to eat big. I began by increasing calories by approx 300 per day. I'd wait a week or two and see what happend, and kept adding until I arrived around 3500. This seems to be a great range for me, as I've added quite a bit of poundage with a very minimal amount of fat. I actually seem to be at a sticking point right now, and am thinking of going up to 4000 per day, although I'm not quite sure how I'm going to eat that much, as I already eat between 6-8 meals per day.

Don't know if this helps at all, but it's been my experience. Good luck!

 

[corvettecris]

Thanks for your input. The most confusing thing for me is the protein thing. Some say .8-1g/lbs is plenty for any athelete. Then you got the mags and websites that say 1.5-2g/lbs. As Bryan said, it's usually the people that sell protein that say this. So what is the truth?

Ok, let me ask this: Science says you only need ~1g/lbs. BUT, do you eat more so that your calories IN is the same, but more of them are protein, which is more likley to be used to repair tissue, and less likely to be stored as fat? Is that the general consensus?

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ]BUT, do you eat more so that your calories IN is the same, but more of them are protein, which is more likley to be used to repair tissue, and less likely to be stored as fat? Is that the general consensus?

Eat enough protein, eat enough fat. The rest should be carbs.

Too much protein is not ideal if you plan on gaining mass due to thermogenesis (specifcally, the specific dynamic action due to energy required to process protein). Stick with .8-1.5g/Kg (about .7 g/lb, which is simply conveniently rounded off to 1). Any more than that is not needed unless you plan to be best buds with Optimum Nutrition or the makers of Designer Whey.

Here, if I'm not yet clear:
1.) Figure out how much calories you need. For example, you determine that you need 3000 calories a day (just an example).
2.) Find how much protein you need. Say you are 200 lbs (91 Kg). So you decide to take in 150g. That's already 600 calories.
3.) You want 30% to be fat, so you get 30% of 3000, which is 900 calories - that means 100g of fat per day.
4.) You still need 1500 more calories to complete 3000. You get that from carbs. That means you need to take in 375g of carbs.

There, now you have your macronutrient ratio (sample only).

 

[corvettecris]

Quote[/b] ]Eat enough protein, eat enough fat. The rest should be carbs.

That is exactly what I needed to know.

Quote[/b] ]Too much protein is not ideal if you plan on gaining mass due to thermogenesis (specifcally, the specific dynamic action due to energy required to process protein). Stick with .8-1.5g/Kg (about .7 g/lb, which is simply conveniently rounded off to 1).

Now, this statement leads to my next question. When cutting, everything changes, right? Due to the thermogenisis that a higher level of protein takes to digest, it is in a person's best interest to increase protein intake during a cut phase? What is a good guideline on protein/carbs/fats for a cutting phase? How about when simply maintaining your current weight?

 

[Falco]

Quote[/b] (corvettecris @ Jan. 01 2006,3:28)]

Quote[/b] ]
Now, this statement leads to my next question. When cutting, everything changes, right? Due to the thermogenisis that a higher level of protein takes to digest, it is in a person's best interest to increase protein intake during a cut phase? What is a good guideline on protein/carbs/fats for a cutting phase? How about when simply maintaining your current weight?

Not really. What changes is your caloric intake. Lower you calories to body weight x 9 - 12 (whatever works best for you. more accurately, bmr - 500).

Eat 1 g protein / lb body weight. 20 - 25% of total calories from fats. Fill the rest of your diet with as many good, high fiber, nutrient-packed carbs as possible. This is, of course, going to make you lower carbs, but only because fat & protein are your constants. If you already don't weight that much (say <150 lbs) your carbs will wind up being very low & you will have very little room for error. i.e - the bigger you are & the more muscle you have, the easier it is to lose weight.

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ] When cutting, everything changes, right? Due to the thermogenisis that a higher level of protein takes to digest, it is in a person's best interest to increase protein intake during a cut phase?

Yes, protein consumption is usually increased.

Have you heard of PSMF? PSMF is a diet that takes that to, say, extreme levels. Haven't tried it myself but some guys report it works well.

 

[corvettecris]

No, never heard of them. I will try a search, though. Thanks!

 

[coach hale]

protein consumption increases as caloric levels drop (keep in mind carbohydrate is protein sparing)

Psmf - works very well with most people for quick wt loss while minimizing or preventing bodily protein losses

check out Lyle McDonalds book Rapid Fat loss for in depth info concerning PSMF

thank you
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com

 

[Nemesis7884]

Quote[/b] ]I realize different things work differently for everyone

this all depends on different factors:

training schedule
goals
insuline sensitivity/resistance
food availabilities
preferences

of course there is no "need" to shoot over 1g protein per lb bodyweight (what is allready a lot anyway because the scientific optimum for athlets is lower, around 0.7g) but for some, carbs aren't really friendly (as for me) so you need to get your calories in from somewhere else... so you just jack up protein intake because you can't eat just fat...

just look that you eat protein with every meal (every 3 hours or so)
get enough essential fatty acids
rely on complex good carbs...
watch pre post workout nutrition

for me my current diet that works for me:
i just eat carbs in the morning, pre post and post post workout - this works for me, otherwise carbs make me fat....and my ratios are pretty exactly around 40/40/20