BIGBANGSingh
New Member
If you're not using the HSN Primer & Driver supplements, what would be a sufficient, "natural" replacement for these?
Supplements
- Thread starter BIGBANGSingh
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BIGBANGSingh
New Member
I'm thinking that a cup of non-fat cottage cheese (32g protein) before and after working out would be a practical replacement for the HSN Primer & Driver. But another issue is, how long before and after should I eat the cottage cheese? I need to get the timing right...
BIGBANGSingh
New Member
Well, since it is slow, could I theoretically take it earlier to reap the same effects?
D
Dianabol
Guest
Dear BIGBANGSingh,
A distinction must be drawn between proteins, in that all proteins are not created equal. The premise for the HSN line of products is that fast proteins are very quickly digested and are thus able to induce a state of hyperaminoacidaemia which can be concluded to be anabolic. Thus, it is useful for a fast-protein to be taken pre-workout owing to increased perfusion during the workout which leads to greater uptake of amino acids by muscles. This increased uptake of amino acids by muscles is a very good thing.
Slow proteins have their place too. Rather than overwhelm your liver with a bolus of amino acids these slow proteins trickle-feed your muscles owing to their slower digestibility and in turn, lower rate of entry into the bloodstream. By this token they are termed anti-catabolic. When taken post-workout, they help maintain blood amino acid levels to ensure sufficient substrate availability to one's muscles, and in this way work hand glove with the fast proteins.
The point to note is this. 20gm of fast protein might do better in producing a hyperaminoacidaemic response than 40gm or even 60gm of slow protein. Taking large amounts of slow protein itself may be a hindrance to digestion and further slow the process of digestion. Taking slow protein earlier will also not result in a hyperaminoacidaemic response akin to that of taking a fast protein nearer the workout because the liver works hard to deaminate what it deems to be excess amino acids and the slow rate of amino acid release from slow proteins cannot overcome the rate at which the liver deaminates them.
What you need is a relatively overwhelming amount of amino acids in as short period of time as possible (which can only come from fast proteins) in order for a sizeable amount of amino acids to escape liver degradation and in this way, elicit a hyperaminoacidaemic effect in your bloodstream.
Thus, slow proteins cannot, in any feasible way, replace fast proteins. But fret not. If no such fast protein (which ideally, takes the form of whey protein powder) is available, all is not lost. You still can make good gains with non-supplemented diet assuming your protein and overall caloric needs are met.
You can try pre-digesting your protein by blending warm milk, warm cottage cheese, warm yoghurt etc with fresh papaya (paw paw fruit) and pineapple, let sit for ten minutes or so to allow for the proteolytic enzymes to do their work before drinking up but I am unsure as to how much faster the protein becomes despite such enzyme pre-digestion.
I am curious though, are you taking creatine? A sound diet, adequate rest, and HST makes a good case for muscle gains. A sound diet, adequate rest, and HST plus quality protein supplementation (e.g. HSN Primer and Driver) plus creatine will make the case of muscle gains prima facie, such gains perhaps only second to the use of AAS.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
A distinction must be drawn between proteins, in that all proteins are not created equal. The premise for the HSN line of products is that fast proteins are very quickly digested and are thus able to induce a state of hyperaminoacidaemia which can be concluded to be anabolic. Thus, it is useful for a fast-protein to be taken pre-workout owing to increased perfusion during the workout which leads to greater uptake of amino acids by muscles. This increased uptake of amino acids by muscles is a very good thing.
Slow proteins have their place too. Rather than overwhelm your liver with a bolus of amino acids these slow proteins trickle-feed your muscles owing to their slower digestibility and in turn, lower rate of entry into the bloodstream. By this token they are termed anti-catabolic. When taken post-workout, they help maintain blood amino acid levels to ensure sufficient substrate availability to one's muscles, and in this way work hand glove with the fast proteins.
The point to note is this. 20gm of fast protein might do better in producing a hyperaminoacidaemic response than 40gm or even 60gm of slow protein. Taking large amounts of slow protein itself may be a hindrance to digestion and further slow the process of digestion. Taking slow protein earlier will also not result in a hyperaminoacidaemic response akin to that of taking a fast protein nearer the workout because the liver works hard to deaminate what it deems to be excess amino acids and the slow rate of amino acid release from slow proteins cannot overcome the rate at which the liver deaminates them.
What you need is a relatively overwhelming amount of amino acids in as short period of time as possible (which can only come from fast proteins) in order for a sizeable amount of amino acids to escape liver degradation and in this way, elicit a hyperaminoacidaemic effect in your bloodstream.
Thus, slow proteins cannot, in any feasible way, replace fast proteins. But fret not. If no such fast protein (which ideally, takes the form of whey protein powder) is available, all is not lost. You still can make good gains with non-supplemented diet assuming your protein and overall caloric needs are met.
You can try pre-digesting your protein by blending warm milk, warm cottage cheese, warm yoghurt etc with fresh papaya (paw paw fruit) and pineapple, let sit for ten minutes or so to allow for the proteolytic enzymes to do their work before drinking up but I am unsure as to how much faster the protein becomes despite such enzyme pre-digestion.
I am curious though, are you taking creatine? A sound diet, adequate rest, and HST makes a good case for muscle gains. A sound diet, adequate rest, and HST plus quality protein supplementation (e.g. HSN Primer and Driver) plus creatine will make the case of muscle gains prima facie, such gains perhaps only second to the use of AAS.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
BIGBANGSingh
New Member
I'm not taking creatine. So if I'm too lazy to do all that pre-digesting stuff, should I just skip pre-workout nutrition altogether? Should I just eat the cottage cheese post-workout, while still adhering to all the other HSN diet recommendations?
In oart of a discussion in the Int J sport Nutr RElat Metab, tipton (The guy who did the pre/post training meal research)[b said:
said in response to a question on if it could be achieved without amoinos (ie food instead) it was yes, it would just take longer.
Milk as a whole will take longer to digest, but there is fast (whey) and slow (casein) components.
People did perfectly well before all this stuff, adn its only a (potential) advantage, not required to succeed.
eat some food 2-3hours out, take some at around 1hour out to maintain it. Then eat something afterwards, like chicken on white bread. Or eat cottage cheese with something higher GI.
thedrivethruguy
New Member
I read somewhere that milk is 80% casein and 20% whey, and that each component that aaron talked about is absorbed separately. So would 20% of the protein from milk be enough to induce hyperaminoacidemia? Of course if not you could just drink a half gallon and get bloated 
hey at least you would have your protein covered
Keith
hey at least you would have your protein covered
Keith