water fasting

[xeno]Julios

New Member
taken from here:
http://gaianstudies.org/articles4.htm
see the part i highlighted in bold highlighted - does this seem realistic? What about for bodybuilders who generally seem to be maintaining levels of muscle mass that isn't exactly natural with respect to their bodies? (i.e. above their equilibrium, if such a thing exists)
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The Physiological Changes of Fasting
Many of the most dramatic changes that occur in the body during fasting take place on the first three days of the fast. These occur as the body switches from one fuel source to another. Normally, the primary form of energy the body uses for energy is glucose, a type of sugar. Most of this is extracted or converted from the food we eat. Throughout the day, the liver stores excess sugar in a special form called glycogen that it can call on as energy levels fall between meals. There is enough of this sugar source for 8-12 hours of energy and usually, it is completely exhausted within the first 24 hours of fasting. (However, once the body shifts over to ketosis or fat as fuel, this new fuel is used to also restore the body's glycogen reserves.)
Once the liver's stores of glycogen are gone, the body begins to shift over to what is called ketosis or ketone production - the use of fatty acids as fuel instead of glucose. This shift generally begins on the second day of fasting and completed by the third. In this interim period there is no glucose available and energy from fat conversion is insufficient but the body still needs fuel. So it accesses glucose from two sources. It first converts glycerol, available in the body's fat stores, to glucose but this is still insufficient. So it makes the rest that it needs from catabolizing, or breaking down, the amino acids in muscle tissue, using them in the liver for gluconeogenesis, or the making of glucose. Between 60 and 84 grams of protein are used on this second day, 2-3 ounces of muscle tissue. By the third day ketone production is sufficient to provide nearly all the energy the body needs and the body's protein begins to be strongly conserved. The body still needs a tiny amount of glucose for some functions, however, so a very small amount of protein, 18-24 grams, is still catabolized to supply it - from 1/2 to 1 ounce of muscle tissue per day. Over a 30 day water fast a person generally loses a maximum of 1-2 pounds of muscle mass. This conservation of the body's protein is an evolutionary development that exists to protect muscle tissue and vital organs from damage during periods of insufficient food availability.
From the third day onward the rate of the breakdown of fatty acids from adipose or fat tissue continues to increase, hitting its peak on the tenth day. This seven day period, after the body has shifted completely over to ketosis, is where the maximum breakdown of fat tissue occurs. As part of protein conservation, the body also begins seeking out all non-body- protein sources of fuel: nonessential cellular masses such as fibroid tumors and degenerative tissues, bacteria, viruses, or any other compounds in the body that can be used for fuel. This is part of the reason that fasting produces the kind of health effects it does. Also, during this period of heightened ketosis the body is in a similar state as the one that occurs during sleep - a rest and detoxification cycle. It begins to focus on the removal of toxins from the body and the healing and regeneration of damaged tissues and organs.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Insane_Man @ Jan. 12 2004,4:28)]You ever see the type of people who do 30 day fasts?
*ba-dum-dum!*

lol

It really does boil down to that.

If only a water fast was effective. I'd love it.
 
Baoh,

what do you mean by effective? its obvious that you will start to lose fat on this thing. so in that respect its wonderful. but how much of a toll does it really take on the muscle tissue of a bodybuilder who has been trying so hard to put it on? this article would have you believe the answer is "not much". do you know the real answer?
 
oh - and Insane_man,

yeah, i think we all agree that 30 days on water is ridiculous and would never try it, but what about 2 days? I recall that when i get sick and cant eat anything for about two days, i come out looking more ripped than ever. maybe there is some value here - but i am not one to say for sure
 
Mellon, when you are sick for 2 days or so, it's possible that you are also dehydrated, which could account for increased definition. Also, I'm pretty sure that in 2 days you wouldn't really lose any muscle. Though I can't imagine losing much fat either.

I recall reading that during starvation you lose 60% muscle and 40% fat. If you were at a low BF% already, then perhaps it would make you look more cut to lose a bit of fat while sacrificing muscle.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Baoh @ Jan. 13 2004,6:44)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Insane_Man @ Jan. 12 2004,4:28)]You ever see the type of people who do 30 day fasts?
*ba-dum-dum!*
lol
It really does boil down to that.
If only a water fast was effective. I'd love it.
i've read of studies that show that water fasting is the most effective way of reducing high blood pressure. I've also read that it's an effective treatment for many diseases including arthritis.

Do you have any information regarding its inefficacy in these contexts?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (mellon @ Jan. 13 2004,10:21)]
Baoh,
what do you mean by effective? its obvious that you will start to lose fat on this thing. so in that respect its wonderful. but how much of a toll does it really take on the muscle tissue of a bodybuilder who has been trying so hard to put it on? this article would have you believe the answer is "not much". do you know the real answer?

> Can you really not see how destructive such a thing is?

"As part of protein conservation, the body also begins seeking out all non-body- protein sources of fuel: nonessential cellular masses such as fibroid tumors and degenerative tissues, bacteria, viruses, or any other compounds in the body that can be used for fuel."

> Stupidity of the magnitude expressed by the portion I put in quotations never fails to knock the intellectual wind out of me, leaving me only with visions of crimson.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ([xeno]Julios @ Jan. 13 2004,11:24)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Baoh @ Jan. 13 2004,6:44)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Insane_Man @ Jan. 12 2004,4:28)]You ever see the type of people who do 30 day fasts?
*ba-dum-dum!*
lol
It really does boil down to that.
If only a water fast was effective. I'd love it.
i've read of studies that show that water fasting is the most effective way of reducing high blood pressure. I've also read that it's an effective treatment for many diseases including arthritis.
Do you have any information regarding its inefficacy in these contexts?
Blood pressure: Actually, I can see in my mind how it could be an effective ***temporary*** solution to an issue of nonspecific hypertension.

Arthritis: Besides the possible lessening of load placed on the joints, I see no manner in which this could assist someone with degenerative osteoarthritis.

The portion I quoted in my second post in this thread, by the way, really ought to be taken into deep consideration. It's [insert epithet here].
 
Water fasting apparently helps the body naturally rid itself of toxins. Such toxins can apparently be involved in a host of undesirable conditions, and in some cases, be the ultimate cause. I think in arthritis the logic is that the toxins in the joint induce autoimmune responses that result in inflammation.

here is a study on water fasting and hypertension:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract

As for your quoted bit, you may be right in denouncing that explication of the mechanisms of water fasting (though i'm not knowledgeable enough to take your denunciation as refutation), but that doesn't render water fasting ineffective, unless you subscribe to the strawman.
 
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