New angle

Fausto

Fausto

HST Expert
Hi Guys

Here is something I am thinking of lately for my next program.

3 x p/week program with basic compounds:

Squat/Deadlift/Bench/Chins/EZ bar pullovers/Military presses

2 or 3 x p/week isolation exercises as complementary for the above. On the days off

Leg Extensions/Good mornings/Curls/Flyes and peckdecks/Tricep extensions/and abs of course.

I will use stretches and pulsing during the compounds (after the 10's as they will only really work when used immediatelly after.

What is the general opinion on this?
 
Fausto let me make sure I understand this correctly.

Compounds 3 days a week then on your off days or every other day you are going to use isolations as a stretch?
 
Hi mate,

I recently pm'd you about doing a split and this was another split I actually considered - mainly because it mean that one day would be very strenuous but the next wouldn't be using heavy compounds & lots of weights but would still be beneficial.

Personally in the pre-5s I would rather do compounds etc 6 times a week and that would also include stretch point movements from the 10s onwards. It's only when I hit the heavy weights that I feel I can't do heavy compound movements everyday so I would suggest maybe changing to this split during the 5s (although I prefer the current split I'm doing which I pm'd you about).

Having said that am I right in thinking that you generally do 3x a week and aren't a great fan of 6 times a week as described above? If so I'd have thought this routine would be good compared to only working out 3 times a week and it would help manage fatigue/overtraining in the heavy 5s. It would also help you really play around with things like loaded stretches etc - which I would do during your isolation sessions (I think your post indicates you want to use stretches during the compound sessions, any reason for this?).

Incidentally I'm reading you post the same way as Joe so apologies if I got it wrong!

Cheers

Rob
 
Joe

To answer your question, no.

I am going to use only isolations every other day, the strectches and pulses I'd use during the heavy's after the 10's i.o.w from the 5's onwards.

So that way I don't use iso's at all (except for pulses and loaded stretches) in my main program if that makes sense, and on off days I will only use iso and nothing else.

Rob

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Having said that am I right in thinking that you generally do 3x a week and aren't a great fan of 6 times a week as described above?
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Yep, quite right there, but I would If I could only I am taking as much flak as I can at home for taking my time and only thinking of myself, therefore like this, I'd minimize the training to 30 minutes or so every day and include whatever else it is that I have to do extra to keep everyone happy, kinda having an extra workout (mental one) as well, and a few other light duties (trash, dishes, yada yada yada yada.....)
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That is it! Now thwe question reamins, will it benefit me? Or I am better off doing 3x p/week straight compounds?
 
I'm not sure if I get this right, but if
new program = (basic 3x a week) + (iso's on off days),
then definitely it would be better than the basic 3x a week, since it incorporates more volume without adding much CNS fatigue (due to iso's). Sure, you might be better off doing 6x a week up to the heavy 5's as robefc suggested, but as I understand it, Fausto wants to maintain the basic 3x a week program. Iso's on off days are sort of a "bonus", if you may, which allows for additional iso's, stretches and metabolic work sets. Please correct me if I got this totally wrong.

So, assuming that this is the case, the new program would be better than the basic 3x a week compounds-only in 2 ways;
1. More volume (even if this comes from iso's only)
2. More constant (elevated) synthesis rates and possibly a "summation" effect.

Cheers,
Dimitris
 
I'm sorry, reading the previous posts more carefully I realised that pulses and stretches are to be used with the compounds, so that "off days" will be devoted strictly to iso's. However, this doesn't change anything in my remarks, as long as the iso's mean more work than the basic compounds-only program.
 
Dimitris

You basically have it right!

Except that I was wondering if I should keep the metabolic work together wit the heavies as it may be useless on its own as opposed to the iso's which will provide the extra volume and minimize the per day time at the gym.

I am looking for the ultimate win-win situation, the family gets the extra time and I get the extra benefit with less time spent at the gym
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This is what i like about the HST versatility
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Besides the fact that I have been enticed by some of your people's clever splitting set ups, so I'm getting me some of that too  
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Thanks for the guidance dudes!
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I'm kinda torn....loaded stretches on off days may lead to E-C decoupling, and in turn a strength loss.

Keep metabolics with the heavy work, that's where they belong :)
 
Thanks Jester

Exactly my train of thought!

I am only splitting the iso's.

here's the workout anyway.
 
I think it sounds good, Fausto.
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I've been thinking about splitting things up this way myself. I like doing iso's, and feel that they benefit my bi's and tri's. Currently I am doing iso's 3 times a week (doing 12's right now, basic 3 sessions/week routine), but once I hit the heavies I will cut down to doing iso's once a week, probably mid-week on Wednesdays. But I've thought about doing them twice a week instead, like you're describing, and then doing them on "off" days.

Regards,
/ R
 
Thanks guys

I knew I could count on you!
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Now I am happy knowing that I am on the right track and will benefit from this split.
 
Jester/Malu

Benefits

1 - The extra volume for one.

2 - Cutting down time at each sesssion, with a partner that lifts less tahn me and at home, a lot of plate changing goes on, takes about 1 1/2 hours.

3 - Personally and the very reason why I asked for second opinions was that I think if I give attention to the heavy lifts and the iso's on their own I can get a lot more focus.

4 - I feel that isolations get me somewhere but they really hamper the main workout once you start doing 3 rep of each, like this it is more structured and therefore better overall, then the volume is higher so 5x p/week should get me a little further.

'nough said
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Sounds good to me. I feel that when you get to the very heavy work (post-5's - negatives), you should concentrate on the heavy compounds. Fausto proposes that we do not drop iso's altogether, but rather use them once or twice per week IN ADDITION to the basic compounds-only program (on "off" days). This approach also has the added benefit of better management of possibly low energy levels.

Regards,
Dimitris
 
I dunno . . . I've really become a fan of the compounds - not because I think that iso's are bad, just because I think that the smaller muscles like bis and tris get a better workout in the compound exercises.

And loaded stretches on the days between compounds seem like they'll hamper strength.

I think that 3x a week 2x per day (compounds morning, isos arvo) would be more effective, but if it's a matter of timing etc then that's prob. more difficult.

But hey, let us know how it goes
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Dimitris

Thanks for the back up!
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]This approach also has the added benefit of better management of possibly low energy levels.
Click to expand...

Yep, one of the main reasons why I want to try this out!

The other is family and quality time related and is a way of managing time per workout, I am now aiming at 30 - 45 minutes. :D

We "meat heads" tend to pay too much attention to ourselves and are sometimes termed egotistical, so when espoused....tread very carefully on thegym path and try to maintain balance...difficult to do.

But with a great bunch of guys like we have here not impossible and actually manageable :D
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Hey Fausto  :)

Ah, Fausto old boy, new routine eh?

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about this.

I thought of doing something like this some time ago (doing extra isolations  - in particular curls - during off days). But didn't go through with it. (Not to mention I don't have off days really since I train every morning) But it really did seem like a good idea to me.

Here are my 2 cents regarding the isolations on off days:
1) If you want to do them for purposes of metabollic work - seems doubtful to me. That's like training today then wearing a tourniquet the next day and expect to see the same results as in occlusion studies.

2) If you want to do them just for extra work - reasonable idea, but loses it's usefulness early when the compounds are heavy enough that none of your iso's are a match at all. For all the many isos you'll be doing, you might just end up getting very little in return but sacrificing a lot in terms of fatigue and recovery.

3) And this is the most important one - hehehe, you are actually the expert, not me. It could very well be effective. Perhaps it could actually turn out a little like undulating progression of sorts (respect to load only) for the muscles affected by the isos since their load is lesser.

I workout at home, too, 30-45 minutes a day, everyday. If time is your constraint, perhaps you can try my everyday routine. Just PM me and we can discuss it there.

Good luck there, tell us the results of your new routine  
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-JV
 
im curious how your body will respond to the amount of resting time your giving to it.

i mean thats a lot of work.
 
You can workout as often as you want, as long as you keep the volume of work in check. It all boils down to how you manage your workout (meaning you also consider all other variables), not just controlling how often you workout. You can easily overfatigue yourself even with just 3x a week if you go crazy on your heavy lifts like deads and squats. As long as you manage your workouts, higher frequency workouts are not a problem.

And when I said other variables, that includes a lot of things - number of reps and sets, number of exercises, kinds of exercises, nutrition, daily (non-workout) stress, sleep, etc.
 
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