Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by ian, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. ian

    ian New Member

    I've been gyming it for years now and I know a lot of good competing bodybuilders and have read up a lot abut the gym.
    What I want to know is......

    Do any pro's use this system?
    Whenever I have showed this routine to those that compete in my gym, they laugh at me.

    Also I would like to hear from decent standard bodybuilders on changing to HST. It is incredibly hard to change from the methods that everyone has used to years to a brand new method, especially in the 1st week of 15s when the women in the gym are outlifting me.
    I have been looking at the forum, but its hard to know who ur talking to. There are obviously some knowledgable people on the site, however there are also people that thought Blade's picture of Lee Priest was himself.
    Basically I want an experienced bodybuilder to tell me its hard to get used to the routine, but itl be worth it in the end.
  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    It's hard to get used to HST but it is worth it in the end!    [​IMG]

    I have been bodybuilding for 46 years now, with some time out for military duty, but been pretty consistent otherwise. I grew up playing football against Mike Katz and worked out with him at his gym in Branford, CT for many years until I went to a home gym for convenience purposes. The only point being that, while I am not a pro and do not feel a need to compete, I have been in the game and have watched it evolve so I probably meet your criteria.

    For almost 44 years I used the traditional approaches of split routines with many sets (16 to 20), working each bodypart once per week. I switched to HST because I was stalled for about 20 years and did not want to take the next logical jump to steroids to push past where I was.  I started HST 2 1/2 years ago with trepidations as it sounded out of kilter to me. However, I have gained more in the last 2 1/2 years with HST than I gained in the last 25 years. I gained 15 pounds and cut my bodyfat from 18% to 9%.

    I've experimented with 3 times per week, every other day, every day with splits and am now starting twice a day (the same routine) for 5 days per week. I found that, for me anyways, frequency and progressive load with SD were the keys to get me growing again. Volume is great for the first 5 years but after that you need to make some serious changes to avoid RBE. A lot of people try HST for a half cycle or so and then decide it isn't for them. Fine by me. I will be 60 in June and look better and am stronger than when I was 35 and training with Mike. All I can say is that it works great for me.  :D

    Try it but give it a fair shake. At least 6 months. If you don't like it you probably won't have missed out on anything as you are probably in the rut of permanent RBE anyway at your stage of the game. ;)

    Then again, there is always the route of steroids, more steroids and then even more steroids, etc.   [​IMG] Some people are happy with that...at least while they are using.
  3. skinnyman

    skinnyman New Member

    ian - i've been using traditional ways of growing (3 sets, progressing load, once a week workout, lots of other exercises, heavy weights) and i noticed i wasn't growing at all. i switched to HST and one thing i noticed is that my strength in latt puldowns added 70 lbs more. strength went skyrocket and i'm seeing incredible gains when i fixed my diet. I suggest you try HST first. In the gym here, this guy (no steroids) was using HST and he's like 150% (or even more) stronger in squats than this guy in STEROIDS.

    Old and grey - i've been doing high frequency recently. you said it's only good for 5 years? you mean, even if you SD, you'll reach RBE? [​IMG]
  4. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Actually I referred to high volume as opposed to frequency.

    Of course you can continue to grow to some degree with high volume and low frequency if you incorporate SD and progressive loading, even after 5 years. However, my experience has been that progressive load and frequency are at least as important as SD for continued growth.

    Most once a week bodybuilders don't use a progressive loading technique. They load the barbell up with about the same amount of weight week after week and go at it. That is conditioning the muscee, not challenging it.

    Also, recent studies have found that frequency is probably more important than volume in hypertrophy. Look at the "old time" lifters of the 50's such as Reeves. They had tremendous steroid free physiques and typically worked out three times per week. However, if they applied some of the principles of HST such as progressive loading and SD coupled with the advances that have been made in nutrition in the last half century, they would be even better. I think that they would blow away today's 'natural" bodybuilders who go with the once a week, HIT, GVT, OVT etc. programs.

    Anyway, just my opinion and experience. I am sure there are others who could site some opposite examples. The key is to find what works best for YOUR particular genetic and musculature make up and then maximize that. For the general population, I believe that to be HST.
  5. Dood

    Dood New Member

    Let me just throw this out there. It's not always a good idea to look to the largest people in the gym to learn how to grow. Genetics plays a big part, as does possible steroid use. Another thing is these people may not even know exactly what they did that made them grow. They may think it's the 50 rep burn set that pumped up their biceps, when it was really the deadlifts they did with 500lbs.
    All I'm saying is don't judge a book by it's cover. DKM on this site isn't the biggest guy, but he knows more about hypertrophy than most of us ever will. [​IMG]
  6. liegelord

    liegelord New Member


    I did HIT for years and gained nothing for most of it, except strength. I came across this site because I was so tired of killing myself and not gaining any weight. I decided the worst that could happen is I don't gain a pound, so I was determined to give the program a shot and did the basic program i.e., 15x1, 10x2, 5x3 and drops & negs. So far, in the first cycle I went from 174.5 to 190. I just finished my first week of 5's (2nd cycle) and I'm up to 197. Strength is up on all my lifts, though not as much if I was doing HIT for the same time period. Though in defense of HST, the fact I am not lifting as much in the dips and chins is because I've gained 23 pounds.

    Anyway, forget what people at the gym think, do the program, eat, sleep and you'll gain.
  7. Am I'm not the oldest either (O&G ;) ;) )
  8. robefc

    robefc New Member

    If you want a detailed comparison of HST to other routines, as well as anecdotes then vicious is a good guy to talk to...but what I wanted to say is do you not just fancy a change anyway?

    I assume you're not making many gains at the moment or you wouldn't want to change (and I think everyone here would say good luck to you if you were still making good gains with another routine) so you haven't got anything to lose...and I just find I need to change my work out from time to time just to maintain my interest and dedication to training...in fact I was close to trying something else other than HST after this cycle but vicious has got me all motivated again by looking at various tweaking methods.

    I know its hard in the 15s ego wise but just smile to yourself when you see people struggling with weights that are too heavy for them, feel like the bigger man (in both senses!) and enjoy the feeling of progress as you increase the load each week until you're lifting more than you ever have before!

    Disclaimer - I would never class myself as an experienced body builder so don't want to get into anecdotes about gains etc but I will say that HST is the most satisying programme I've used, you really feel like you're progressing each week and have a real sense of achievement after completing a cycle. Going to failure used to make me feel great but then I would analyse it later and realise I was using the same weight for weeks or months at a time...then I didn't feel quite as great!!

    good luck
  9. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well said robefc! [​IMG]
  10. ian

    ian New Member

    Right heres the ian view on a few things..... (sure ur all terrible bothered!)

    1/ I rekon that genetics is everything in the gym.
    I know lads that are massive and cannot get a chest no matter what they do or how much the lift.
    One of the lads I used to train with was super lazy and he was made up when he hurt his back doin squats, coz hes had an excuse not to do legs for years now. But hes still got the biggest calves in our gym!!!
    Could dish out 1000s of genetic storys, but I know people get bored of me!!

    2/As far as me not making gains, I honestly cudnt tell you.I honestly rekon this is one of the hardest things for an amatuer bodybuilder to find out, and any tips would be welcome!! (il explain now)

    I was constantly putting weight on(I thought I luked good) then I started doin loadsa cardio, (coz I thought I needed to get fitter), I lost loadsa weight and was fuming. but people told me I looked better coz I was getting fat (not propa fat, just in the face).
    Also I could see someone oneday and they told me I luked too big, then a week later see them and I luked tiny. Same in the SD week, I thought I looked absolutly shockn by the end of it, but I bet there was hardly any change.

    Morale of the story is you cant tell what condition your in, if I go on one of them 'clever' weighing machines (that do your BMI etc) it tells me im 5stone over weight for my height, and doesnt take into account my muscle (i must stress here im not a fat twat, iv still gota 6pack!!).

    I could get on the scales everyday this week and be a slightly different weight, and as far as lookn in the mirror goes... i think its impossible to know what you actually look like, im sure i could find proof of that if i wanted. Your either one of those people that looks in and thinks u look like Arnie,but better or one of those people that thinks you look like crap (like me).

    3/id have to agree with the 'dont judge a book by its cover' post. Before I started using HST, I trained with the gym monsters, all 18stone+, and while they were good lads they literally didnt hava clue what they were talking about. We lifted stupid weights on stupid excercises and all ended up injured, and no matter what I said we would not change. Theyd sit there moaning about bad shoulders, then stick 100kg on the bar for the behind the neck press.

    Thatl keep you readn for a bit, off to geta chicken
  11. Another reason HST is a good program. Sound decision making lends to a sound body. Injuries get you nowhere in the long run, the gains you made with two years of HIT can thouroughly be wiped away when you injure yourself and are out of training for 2 to 4 months. Not that sound of an idea.

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