1st cycle done, help with other issues

M

Ministro

New Member
Im new to this Forum, so 1st things first, Hello All of you.

I have been training weights for a year and 4 months non stop, i decided to start HST training 6 weeks ago(allready finished my 1st cycle).

Here is my routine

1. Deep squat 1x
2 Stiff leg deadlift 2x
3.Bench press 2x
4. Peck deck 1x
5.Lat pulldown wide grip 2x
6.machine rows wide grip(romboid) 2x
7.Military press 1x
8.lateral raises 1x
9.inclined lateral raises1x
10. shrugs 1x
11.dumbell bicep 2x
12. Tricep Pulldown 2x
13. calf raises 2x

Thats the whole routine, x number means number of sets per exercise, using warm up when is needed..
I earned some mass but i still dont know how much, should be 1.5 pounds lean and 0.8 pounds of fat. now im cutting a bit since i start 2nd week of 15´s. Im taking 8 days rest by the way.

Heres the main question, im training jiu jitsu 3 times a week(for those ones that dont know it, its a sport kinda like judo, grappling sport). Should i train HST just 2 times weekly to avoid overtraining? Now im not training jiu jitsu for 4 weeks cause i injured my neck, but when i get back i dont want to be overtrained( this happened to me 3 months ago, and wasnt nice). or maybe short my workout? i dont really know how to focus the HST workout to mix it with this other sport to avoid the overtraining symthoms.

Any input is welcome, peace
 
you could start by dropping some of those exrcises like,
4. Peck deck 1x
8.lateral raises 1x
9.inclined lateral raises1x
11.dumbell bicep 2x
12. Tricep Pulldown 2x
 
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(Ministro @ Jul. 23 2007,11:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Heres the main question, im training jiu jitsu 3 times a week(for those ones that dont know it, its a sport kinda like judo, grappling sport). Should i train HST just 2 times weekly to avoid overtraining? Now im not training jiu jitsu for 4 weeks cause i injured my neck, but when i get back i dont want to be overtrained( this happened to me 3 months ago, and wasnt nice). or maybe short my workout? i dont really know how to focus the HST workout to mix it with this other sport to avoid the overtraining symthoms.</div>
I used to box several days each week during my first two HST cycles. I was training HST six times per week (am and pm, MWF, doing both deads and squats) yet I still got good results. I think you'll find that Jiu Jitsu, like karate and boxing, is mainly going to count as cardio.

It is possible that a lot (a LOT!) of cardio exercise may produce a somewhat katabolic internal environment. However, if you are only training your Jiu Jitsu 3 times per week, I wouldn't think you'd be in much danger of overtraining simply because of that.

Rather than cut back your HST training to twice a week, I'd encourage you instead to cut back on the number of exercises you have in each workout. Take a look at Fausto's Simplify and Win thread (Simplify and Win). You'll find it very helpful.
 
You don't need to cut your frequency, but rather your volume/# of exercises as Faz suggested.

Ditto to Fausto's Pulitzer Prize nominated Simplify and Win thread.
 
Your first cycle looks like my first cycle, which is very bad.
You need only 5 compounds (legs, chest, back, shoulders, abs). Do ab routine and your ok.
 
<div>
(Avi1985 @ Jul. 23 2007,18:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Your first cycle looks like my first cycle, which is very bad.
You need only 5 compounds (legs, chest, back, shoulders, abs). Do ab routine and your ok.</div>
is it my routine too long then?
the more i think about the routine the more confused i get
Im starting my 15´s on thursday, would this be ok?=

1x Squat
1x deadlift
2 x bench press
1x lat pulldown close grip
1x bent bar row
2x miitary press
2x calves
2x crunches

Should i avoid these exercises??:
bicep
tricep
shrugs
lateral raises

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Hi Ministro (de quê?)

1x Squat (alternate these 2) 1x deadlift

2 x bench press
1x lat pulldown close grip (why not chin-ups?)
1x bent bar row
2x miitary press
2x calves (I would not worry unless your calves really need it)
2x crunches (this can be done off days)

Should i avoid these exercises??:
bicep
tricep
shrugs
lateral raises

Well, chins-ups and dips really take care of biceps and triceps but I don't see them above. But you can include one set of each, just don't pay too much attenmtion to them.

Shrugs - well your deadlifts should really take care of your traps.

Your best bet, look up the Simplify and Win thread, pick a workout there, there are many from different people
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and then use a A/B set up, that way you can double up the amount of exercises but still only do half for each workout, make sense?

Avi1985 is right though, those are the ones that really pay off, the others are extra's but not worth much in terms of value.
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Fausto, i was avoiding chin ups and dips cause i have to hang weight to me in the 5´s and i dont find it nice, when theres no much equipment for that at my gym, ill try to handle it for dips, and ill start chin ups with pulley at 15´s, moving to free chin ups at 10´s and 5´s.
Ill set up a A/B routine to get a better overall development i think. if im making A &amp; B i have to jump 10% each workout to jump from 75% to 100% in two weeks
A 75%, 85%,95% B 80%,90%,100%

A
2x Squat
2x Bench Press
1x Chin ups(narow grip)
1x dumbell rows
2x lateral raises
2x calf raise (machine)
2x crunches

B
2x Deadlift
2x Dips
1x Pull ups(wide grip)
1x machine rows wide grip
2x Military Press
2x 1 leg calf raise (using dumbell)
2x another abs exercise

( ¿ SHOULD I MAKE 2 AND 2 SETS FOR BACK EXERCISES OR JUST LEAVE IT 1 AND 1 SETS??)

Hope this one looks better, i have seen the simplify and win thread, so please dont tell me to look at it again, lol

Any input for this one is welcomes, thanks

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You dont need 4 exercises for back. You need only 2 and alternate/ One for rhe wide back and one for the narrow. You dont need to train your calves if you do squat and deadlift And if you do dips on B, do incline bench press on A ( only a recommendation).
So its very simple - 5 compunds each exercise, 1 set on 15's 2 sets on 10's and 3 sets on 5's. You can play with the sets number ( 2 sets on the whole cycle, cluster to 15-20 reps etc...) and see what works best for you.
Good luck.
 
thx for the info Avi1985, ill keep in mind your advice
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I just got back from a short interval training with my bicicle, i never thought it was going to be so hard, just 11 minutes plus warm up and cool down. i almost puke at the beach. now im ok.
 
Hey Ministro

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, i was avoiding chin ups and dips cause i have to hang weight to me in the 5´s and i dont find it nice, when theres no much equipment for that at my gym, ill try to handle it for dips, and ill start chin ups with pulley at 15´s, moving to free chin ups at 10´s and 5´s.</div>

Hey...its not about nice dude, its about whether it works or not, and it does...big time!
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Equipment - get a weight lifting belt, a chain and a padlock, fit the chain into the belt (the thickness of the leather allows for a nice size bolt - a flat headed one of course) by drilling into it and fitting the bolt in, then the cahin on the outside is fitted and held by nuts. You can also buy ready made dipping and chinning belts.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ill set up a A/B routine to get a better overall development i think. if im making A &amp; B i have to jump 10% each workout to jump from 75% to 100% in two weeks
A 75%, 85%,95% B 80%,90%,100%</div>

Not so... use the same progression for each w/o. And hit 100% of the rep scheme at the end, the opnly difference would be that there would be 3 instead of 6 workouts for each one, the biggest disdvantage is that the increments would be 10% instead of 5%, but you can get around that by keeping them at 5% if they get too much. If this gets too complicated, use my workout sheet, it is worked out so all these complications are out of the way.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">( ¿ SHOULD I MAKE 2 AND 2 SETS FOR BACK EXERCISES OR JUST LEAVE IT 1 AND 1 SETS??)</div>

To simplify, leave it as is, so that throughout you doing 2 sets for each bodypart.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hope this one looks better, i have seen the simplify and win thread, so please dont tell me to look at it again, lol</div>

No problem, we really just wanted you to get acquainted, that's all
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just got back from a short interval training with my bicicle, i never thought it was going to be so hard, just 11 minutes plus warm up and cool down. i almost puke at the beach. now im ok. </div>

Why not do Tabata, same thing...just only 4 minutes, 8 sets, 4 at 20 seconds full out, followed by 10 seconds slow, what mode? Hell, bike, run, squat, punch the bag, whatever blows you hair, really!
 
SD finished today, 10 days rest. I just went to the gym to figure 15 RM´s. i pulled more than i thought at military press and deadlift, here are the numbers.
Also weighted and measured bodyfat. 189 pounds and 10% BF

Squat 140 pounds
Deadlift 165 pounds
Inclined bench press 115 pounds
Chin ups BW less 28 pounds asistance
Machine Calf raise 140 pounds
Dips BW plus 5 pounds
Bent row (bar) 105 pounds
Military press 95 pounds
Machine lateral raise(pulley) next week

Ill start next cycle next week, i have the numbers, so nothing is stopping me now, i havent lost any motivation yet. I want to earn 2 LBM pounds for next cycle, i hope that isnt too much to ask right?
Peace
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Squat - 90/100/110/120/130/140

Deadlift - 115/125/135/145/155/165 (In order to alternate if you are on this phase use the last three weights)

Inclined bench press - 65/75/85/95/105/115

Chin ups - (BW- 48)/(BW- 38)/(BW-28) repeat these three assistance weights and revise after 1 week, try to reduce asssiatnce till you can do BW alone.

Machine Calf raise - 90/100/110/120/130/140 pounds

Dips - BW plus 5 pounds - do BW each time for first week, then include the 5 pounds and do the second week, try to improve on this

Bent row (bar) - 55/65/75/85/95/105

Military press - 45/55/65/75/85/95
 
Fausto, thanks for the tips, i have calculated 75% for starting but the numbers are bigger than the ones you are showing me. Is this 10 pound improvement made cause i can feel better the progressive load than using 7 pounds plus each w/o?
Im just asking, im gonna use the numbers you just gaved me.
Thx 4 the help, Cheers.
 
Try it and see, 10% is alright IMO, but just try this out.

Also startiung out with 75% of the RM is the right way to go,but this can't hurt...see how it goes!
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Cause im having A &amp; B routines, im gonna go longer , 8 total workouts, so my 15´s are taking almost 3 weeks. I Have tried to improve with the chin ups narrow grip, but i still cant, today i was pulling 22 pounds asistance and i couldnt finish, i got 12 and had to put more asistance to reach 3 more. Dips are looking a bit better, ill try to hang some weight next week (5 pounds) and see if i get 15 reps.
Every woirkout seems harder as im getting close to the 100%. Squats felt pretty hard and still have to add 20 more pounds. Also im feeling a pretty good pump after i finish my inclined bench press, a lot of blood into my muscle and it looks pretty big after i finished the 2 sets. the pump doesnt last much really, after some time your peck looks tiny again lol
peace
 
Ministro

15's are really for flushing your body with lactic acid and not really for hypertrophy, although there were some reports of this desireable side effect
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Keep eating and keep moving on, 3 weeks for each mesocycle is what I am doing but that was because I only have a 2x/week frequency.

The A/B set up need not take longer than 2 weeks.
 
Just finished my 15´s yesterday

i got 17 squats with the 15 RM´s weight
Also made improvements on dips, bodyweight plus 10 pounds
Chin ups just gained 6 pounds (less asistance) i could not make 15 with my bodyweight
Inclined bench press 5 more pounds and got 15´s too

Tomorrow ill finish the B routine, deadlifts, bent row, military press, etc
Havent seen grow but earned a bit of strenght BTW
later...
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i got 17 squats with the 15 RM´s weight</div>

Typical first timesd discovery. There is a little bit of strength gained which is noticeable at the end of the mesocycle, it is good that you &quot;milked&quot; it, keepgoing, I got a feeling you going to be one happy man at the end of these weeks.
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Fausto, im going back to jiu jitsu training 3 x per week, so im going to take a 2x week HST training, does this mean that the mesocycle should last 3 weeks instead of two?
 
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