2 questions from a noob

W

whistledixie

New Member
Why the 2-rest-days-in-a-row?

If the muscle should be loaded every 48 hours, why 2 days off in a row (e.g. Sat/Sun)? I'm used to working out 2 - 3 days in a row with 1 rest day, so I wondered if it is a bad idea to try and shorten the whole 8 weeks by simply resting every other day (Monday on, Tuesday off, Wednesday on, Thursday off, Friday on, Saturday off, Sunday on, Monday off, etc...)?

Is it unwise to alternate the rep counts within a single week?

Say, I take my program as I have laid it out, but instead of doing the 15s for 2 weeks - do the lightest weights for the 15s on Monday, then the lightest weights for the 10s on Wednesday and the lightest weights for the 5s on Friday and continue in that fashion until the 6th week where I do the heaviest 15s Monday, heaviest 10s Wednesday, and heaviest 5s Friday.

I read an article where some trainer or fitness 'expert' said he thought it would work better like that.

Any thoughts? I'm going to stick to the program strict for my 1st cycle, but those 2 questions are lingering...
 
Then you wouldn't be following the HST principles by changing it all around! Look at what you want from your ttraining and if HST will give you that.

I am down to 2 sessions a week and making more progress than doing 5 days a week in terms of growth. Takes some getting your head around thats for sure.

HST is a proven set of principles and the 15s however mundane or useless they may feel to you now they have their purpose in the programme. If you are new to HST I would recomend you read the simplify to win thread and do at least two HST cycles to get a feel for it all and then see where you want to take it.

Good luck

Kev
 
It would seem a fundamental principle of HST is that you can tweak anything, but you've got no one to blame but yourself if it doesn't work.
I think you would be wise to complete a whole cycle (or two) first, before making changes.
 
whistledixie said:
Why the 2-rest-days-in-a-row?

If the muscle should be loaded every 48 hours, why 2 days off in a row (e.g. Sat/Sun)? I'm used to working out 2 - 3 days in a row with 1 rest day, so I wondered if it is a bad idea to try and shorten the whole 8 weeks by simply resting every other day (Monday on, Tuesday off, Wednesday on, Thursday off, Friday on, Saturday off, Sunday on, Monday off, etc...)?

Is it unwise to alternate the rep counts within a single week?

Say, I take my program as I have laid it out, but instead of doing the 15s for 2 weeks - do the lightest weights for the 15s on Monday, then the lightest weights for the 10s on Wednesday and the lightest weights for the 5s on Friday and continue in that fashion until the 6th week where I do the heaviest 15s Monday, heaviest 10s Wednesday, and heaviest 5s Friday.

I read an article where some trainer or fitness 'expert' said he thought it would work better like that.

Any thoughts? I'm going to stick to the program strict for my 1st cycle, but those 2 questions are lingering...
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Whistle

Whilst you can easily arrange the rest period, you not going to get a considerable difference because once per week you rest two complete days instead of 1 1/2.

The other thing is HST is not what you are used to do, you need to read up ion it and then implement as the guys say, do at least two full 8 week programs, evaluate and then if you want...you can start changing.

Effecting 15's every week is not going to give you a straight progression, from one end to the other, it is a staggered progression, weekly and that is not the basis of HST it is another type of program.

I read an article where some trainer or fitness 'expert' said he thought it would work better like that. [?QUOTE]

What he thought and the truth may have a huge gap between each other, did you ever find proof that it works better? Did he provide empirical evidence? Not? Well...then...why should you follow it?

This matter has been discussed before quite extensivelly and tried by some of the "labcoats" in this forum.

I suggest you try what the guys are recommending and then make up your mind!

Is it unwise to alternate the rep counts within a single week?
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YES
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Fausto said:
Whistle

Whilst you can easily arrange the rest period, you not going to get a considerable difference because once per week you rest two complete days instead of 1 1/2.

The other thing is HST is not what you are used to do, you need to read up ion it and then implement as the guys say, do at least two full 8 week programs, evaluate and then if you want...you can start changing.

Effecting 15's every week is not going to give you a straight progression, from one end to the other, it is a staggered progression, weekly and that is not the basis of HST it is another type of program.

I read an article where some trainer or fitness 'expert' said he thought it would work better like that. [?QUOTE]

What he thought and the truth may have a huge gap between each other, did you ever find proof that it works better? Did he provide empirical evidence? Not? Well...then...why should you follow it?

This matter has been discussed before quite extensivelly and tried by some of the "labcoats" in this forum.

I suggest you try what the guys are recommending and then make up your mind!



YES
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I appreciate you all taking the time to address my questions. I did try to search for answers to my questions in this forum before asking, but I couldn't find any threads specifically on these 2 subjects - perhaps I didn't dig deep enough.

As I stated in my OP, I do plan to follow the HST guidelines strictly, especially since this is my 1st experience with HST.

And I read the 100+ page FAQ ebook several times as I prepared to start HST - a great resource, btw.

But the question did linger - if we should load the muscle every 48 hours (one of the basic principles) "...HST uses this evidence and calls for repeated loading (training) every 48 hours or so to keep the anabolic activity of the muscle high, while trying to stay slightly ahead of the structural recovery curve by constantly increasing the load each workout. - Blade", why take more than 1 rest day (doing so would have you loading the muscle after 72 hours)? Shaving off that extra rest day would turn an 8 week cycle into a 7 week cycle. Let me reiterate, that is not what I'm going to do as I get familiar with HST - but I felt like I needed to ask.

I realize that any training I pursue will be a unique experiment with only my own results as a guide to what works and what doesn't work for me. I just thought I'd see what others think/have experienced.

As far as the
What he thought and the truth may have a huge gap between each other, did you ever find proof that it works better? Did he provide empirical evidence? Not? Well...then...why should you follow it?
I actually couldn't find any more info on trying it that way. That is why I posed the question here. He had some reasoning for his suggestions, but I don't know if I would call it 'proof'. The concept of a linear progression would still be followed. The training frequency would remain the same. And if one were to do 1*15s, 1.5*10s, 3*5s, like some have discussed here, the rep volume would remain the same.

Again, let me restate - I've read a good amount on here and other places where Bryan Haycock's material is posted (as much as possible, however limited by the amount of time I have been aware of/interested in HST) and I am not going to tweak the program without having tried it the way it is recommended. I just wanted to gather opinions on those 2 questions.
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It's not going to make a big difference if you change the rest days like that. There have been people in the past here who did 6 days a week HST, every other day HST, etc etc. All you will be doing is adding in an extra day every two weeks. So 7 days total every two weeks instead of 6 days of lifting. It won't change much. Is 7 days "more ideal" than 6 days every two weeks? Possibly. Will it make a difference in gains over the course of a cycle? Probably but the difference likely won't be enough to notice.
By the way... the reason Bryan chose to set up the standard HST template the way he did was for simplicity and ease of use. It is easier for most people to stick to 3 days a week. If you can do what you are proposing and stick with it, then by all means do it. You don't have to follow the standard cookie cutter routine to the letter. However, you do need to keep the principles in mind when designing your program for the most success.

Doing 15s, 10s and 5s all in one week works pretty well but the concern for some is that you may find yourself becoming fatigued, joints getting beat up, etc etc etc. The key to take away is this - yes it is still HST. You are still progressing, you are still getting chronic stimulus and all that. What you are talking about is actually one possible variant of HST that we discussed on this forum several years ago, and some of the studies suggested it may be slightly more effective than straight linear progression. Give it a try next cycle if you like and see how it goes for you. I'll see if I can't dig up that thread about it from way back. I recall making some dumb comments on that thread back when I was first starting out and getting basically schooled by Aaron about it. Funny stuff.
 
Something else I would point out... Instead of shortening your cycle to 7 weeks, I would extend each rep range by one workout and keep them all two weeks long. In essence, you will be drawing out your progression a bit longer.
 
Totentanz said:
Something else I would point out... Instead of shortening your cycle to 7 weeks, I would extend each rep range by one workout and keep them all two weeks long. In essence, you will be drawing out your progression a bit longer.
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Thanks a lot! I like your suggestion here. I think I might try it that way next cycle. But I want to see just how sore I am after I complete the max loads. I may appreciate having that extra day off.
 
I wanted to resurrect this thread and answer my own questions for any other noobs out there wondering the same thing. I've almost completed my 1st HST cycle (love it) and feel I have learned from the experience.

My 1st question: why 2 days off in a row if we are to hit the muscles every 48 hours?

My answer: you will learn to appreciate the additional rest day once the weight gets heavy - increasing the weight every workout takes its toll, even though you start below your max. This is part of why it works so well, I imagine; but the countereffect is that it is tough on your body. If one were to ask me this same question today, I'd say the 2 days off is important to sustain the overall volume of work through the cycle, but it is especially important for recovery after the max workouts at the end of each 2 week series.

2nd question: What about alternating rep schemes (example - Week 1: 15 rep workout #1 on Mon, 10 rep workout #1 on Wed, 5 rep workout #1 on Fri; Week 2: 15 rep workout #2 on Mon, 10 rep workout #2 on Wed, 5 rep workout #2 on Fri, and so on...)?

My answer: I don't know if that method would yield greater results or not, but I do think it would be really hard to do it that way. Maybe too difficult even for the most resilient individual. Probably not in the beginning - but buy the 5th & 6th week, you will be at or near max loads every single workout. The way the vanilla HST cycle is set up (15s 2 weeks, 10s 2 weeks, 5s 2 weeks), you get a nice recovery after every max load session by starting the next rep scheme at lighter loads.
 
Hi Whisltedixie

Its good that you have stuck to the programme and I couldn't agree with you more as once the weight starts to increase its amazing how much it takes out of you. I do normally extend the 5s for a couple of extra weeks and will drop down to 3 sets of 3 if needed to keep the weight going up as I dont have a partner to train with.

Stick at it and do a couple more cycles you will start to get a good feel for how your body responds. I enjoy the 5s the most but have started to enjoy the 15s as well and in this cycle found the 10s the hardest.

I also have to vary my exercise from time to time as the gymn I go to can get pretty busy, in this instance I just try and do as similar an exercise as I can.

fyi
I doubt I could alternate an HST cycle session by session like you orignally aked, as you have said it maybe possible for the first 4 week but once the weight really start to increase I doubt I could keep it up.

I do really enjoy the HST and am making some gains small but still gains :)
 
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