4-androstene-3,6,17-trione

[imported_dkm1987]

Ok, done some reading on this and it definately seems to block aromatase by permanately binding to the enzyme in a irreversable manner.

From the ALRI site they say

Quote[/b] ]One study showed an average increase in total testosterone of 188% and free testosterone of 226%!

Looking through their references I couldn't find those results, looking through PM, I couldn't find those results either but it seems to be potent.

When I asked Bryan he said

Quote[/b] ] My question about these products (Ergopharms 6-oxo as well) is whether or not they also bind to androgen receptors with greater binding affinity than testosterone.

If they do, it isn't necessarily a good thing. It can bind without activating the receptor. In other words, it can act as a competative inhibitor of testosterone.

So to make a long post longer, I bought two bottles and will give it shot. I will let you all know if there are any noticable results. Too bad ALRI pulled LMG it looked promising

.

 

[xahrx]

People have run all 6oxo cycles before, don't expect much. I'm waiting for some of the newer testosterone boosters to come out. They seem promising.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

I've been reading a lot on SARM, Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators, they also appear promising

 

[xahrx]

Never even heard of them. Got any good reading tips for SARM research? The test boosters I've been reading up on are SHBG binders.

 

[Sphinx]

I have been using Aromax for the last two weeks or so...Its been awhile since Ive used anything other than creatine, EFA, and protein, so take this as it is.
I feel my libido is greater than it was before, I have a bit of acne starting...Oh and I gained 2.2 pounds last week. Im already saturated with creatine, so thats not it. My diet is pretty much as it always has been, maybe a bit more sodium, not really sure. I have been doing my two weeks of tens and am now into my fives, just fyi.
I learned about them from a board Ive been a member of for years. The Admin, who is a HST fan, some of you probably know of him, says that ALRI is a good company and he has always liked their products. So having been with that board for so long and knowing the rep of the Admin I took a chance. Im glad I did. Hey at least this stuff is fun! LOL Nice being able to go rounds with your woman and not need to 'recharge'!

And the weight gain is nifty too.
I have some of their new Ultra HOT on the way...should be fun!
Sphinx.

 

[MrNasty]

TEST IS BEST!!!

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Mar. 28 2005,1:40)]Never even heard of them.  Got any good reading tips for SARM research?  The test boosters I've been reading up on are SHBG binders.

Chen F, Rodan GA, Schmidt A.
Development of selective androgen receptor modulators and their therapeutic applications.
Zhonghua Nan Ke Xue. 2002;8(3):162-8. Review.
Rosen J, Negro-Vilar A.
Novel, non-steroidal, selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) with anabolic activity in bone and muscle and improved safety profile.
J Musculoskelet Neuronal Interact. 2002 Mar;2(3):222-4.
Chen J, Hwang DJ, Bohl CE, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
A selective androgen receptor modulator for hormonal male contraception.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2005 Feb;312(2):546-53. Epub 2004 Sep 3.
Bohl CE, Chang C, Mohler ML, Chen J, Miller DD, Swaan PW, Dalton JT.
A ligand-based approach to identify quantitative structure-activity relationships for the androgen receptor.
J Med Chem. 2004 Jul 15;47(15):3765-76.
Hanada K, Furuya K, Yamamoto N, Nejishima H, Ichikawa K, Nakamura T, Miyakawa M, Amano S, Sumita Y, Oguro N.
Bone anabolic effects of S-40503, a novel nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM), in rat models of osteoporosis.
Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Nov;26(11):1563-9.

Quote[/b] (Sphinx @ Mar. 28 2005,10:13)]says that ALRI is a good company

I like ALRI, I wished they hadn't pulled LMG, I heard some good things on it over at meso-rx forum. I looked at HOT but it seems the same as their Aromax so I'll wait to see what Aurthur pulls out next.

 

[xahrx]

Thanks DKM. Now I can go try my new alumni membership at my university.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Mar. 30 2005,9:52)]Thanks DKM.  Now I can go try my new alumni membership at my university.

If you happen to get the full txt of

Novel, non-steroidal, selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) with anabolic activity in bone and muscle and improved safety profile.
J Musculoskelet Neuronal Interact. 2002 Mar;2(3):222-4.

I'm not objectional to sharing

 

[precious_roy]

Can I ask sort of a "Newb to Biochemistry" question? What is the difference between something that blocks aromatase and something that blocks SHGB? I guess I understand that aromatase "impairs" testesterone while SHGB "destroies" it, but what about pro-cons of each (which is more potent)?
And what about stuff like MHP T-Bomb which claims that it does both? Is the inhibitor in the Max-oxo better? If this is too stupid a question, just ignore my idiocy.

 

[imported_firefighter2032]

To my understanding---T-Bomb is no longer for sale. They now have T-Bomb II which replaced the andro or test which ever they used and replaced it with Tribulus. I haven't read too many positive writing about Tribulus.

 

[precious_roy]

Quote[/b] ]To my understanding---T-Bomb is no longer for sale.

Sorry about that...that is what I meant, t-bomb II. Replace t-bomb with t-bomb II in my previous post.

Quote[/b] ]I haven't read too many positive writing about Tribulus.

What do you mean by that? Nothing positive as in no effects or that there are some nasty side effects? I would like to read some studies on Tribulus (and the SHGB + aromatase inhibitors while I am at it). Does know of good research on these?

 

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (precious_roy @ April 08 2005,10:01)]What do you mean by that? Nothing positive as in no effects or that there are some nasty side effects? I would like to read some studies on Tribulus (and the SHGB + aromatase inhibitors while I am at it). Does know of good research on these?

Mind and Muscle just had a brief article on Tribulus with some good citations, you should check that out. Tribulus is useless for raising testosterone in healthy men. If you've already got a testosterone defficiency it may help raise levels a bit. This is why a lot of people include in a AAS PCT supplement regimen. Sort of a 'just in case' addition.

 

[precious_roy]

Hey, good stuff.

Another question: AAS seems to contain the main ingredient Chrysin, which supposedly stops the testosterone to estrogen conversion. I have noted that T-bomb II lists it as an ingredient in its suppliment facts label. The problem is that it in no way indicates the amount. In fact, it lists the total amount of "Optimone 5", which is their blend, but does not list the quantity of the ingredients. Is there anyway to determine this? Also, is that even legal? Don't they have to list the quantities of each individual ingredient?

 

[Totentanz]

Not for a proprietary blend, they don't.

 

[precious_roy]

So how would one determine the "potency" of something like this? I mean, technically, could not they just put a large amount of "junk" and a small amount of each "valuable" ingredient?

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (precious_roy @ April 09 2005,6:13)]AAS seems to contain the main ingredient Chrysin

which supposedly stops the testosterone to estrogen conversion.

1. T-Bomb II is not an AAS, nor do most AAS contain Chrysin. Some natural atlernative hyped test builders contain it and tribulus among other STUFF, but Synthetic Steroids don't.

2. Chrysin has not shown to be that strong of an aromatase inhibitor, it MAY reduce the estrogenic effect of aromatase but it surely doesn't STOP it.

Quote[/b] ]What is the difference between something that blocks aromatase and something that blocks SHGB?

Produced in the liver, SHBG makes testosterone inactive by binding it to fat cells. When testosterone is bound, it becomes Bound Testosterone (BT) and unable for bioactivity or use in the body. Blocking SHBG inhibits the binding of Testoterone therefore making more available for attaching to the AR (androgen receptors).

Aromatase is an enzyme that testosterone binds to becoming unavailable for binding to the AR. When bound to the aromatase enzyme testosterone is converted to estradiol (estrogen). Inhibitors bind to the same binding site on the aromatase enzyme that testosterone does. By doing this, they allow less testosterone to bind to aromatase. So, less testosterone is converted to estradiol.

 

[precious_roy]

Ok, I understand. Thanks for clarification.

How is the ALRI product working for you?

 

[xahrx]

It should also be added that blocking SHBG by itself isn't that great an idea. All the active testosterone you get will be aromatized too quickly to be of any real help. Any SHBG blocker would need to be partnered with an aromatse inhibitor to work effectively.