5*5 assistance work

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kinggrub

New Member
I have just finished my HST cycle, and will start a 5*5 cycle next week. But I am not sure over how the assistance work shall bee performed.

Straight set or ramping set even here?

For example

Biceps DB curl: 50*8, 50*8, 50*8

Or

Biceps DB curl: 30*8, 40*8, 50*8

And will it be failure sets?
 
I do them progressive and never to failure.
It is VERY important that the core assistance movements are done as you will not progress on the heavy deads and squats.
 
OK, but ramping you the weight and try do add weight every workout (like the rest of 5*5 principle) or straight set and ad weight then you can get 8 rep in every set?
 
For assistance work, I would stick to hypers, crunches, etc - basically core work like pierre recommended.
 
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(drpierredebs @ Nov. 16 2006,05:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is VERY important that the core assistance movements are done as you will not progress on the heavy deads and squats.</div>
I disagree, I've never done core assistance work.
 
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(liegelord @ Nov. 17 2006,00:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(drpierredebs @ Nov. 16 2006,05:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is VERY important that the core assistance movements are done as you will not progress on the heavy deads and squats.</div>
I disagree, I've never done core assistance work.</div>
Hey thats great, less work for you!
smile.gif
I didn´t do them for a while and I was getting stuck. After four weeks of core assistance I was getting over the hump. It may be more important for those with weaker cores relative to the rest of the body, i.e. a typical fitness club dude. Not being nasty. Before I started HST/5 x 5, I was that dude. I wasn´t weak, but my core was.

For heavy squats, my failing point was my lower back and that little ( or alot) extra strength in my Erector Spinea really helped me bang it out.
 
Whilst on that rabbit trail, how would you do work to strengthen the middle back? I started failing on squats last cycle due to a new pain halfway up the spine.
 
I just don't think that curls, etc are useful for assistance work. If you are going to do it, you should do something useful like hypers or weighted crunches, not curls. Maybe it's just my perception, but I believe that arms are rarely a sticking point for the big compounds. Grip maybe, but curls won't really help with that.

Quadancer - Are you rowing? I don't recall your routine right off hand... but I don't feel chins adequately hit the middle back.
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 17 2006,06:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whilst on that rabbit trail, how would you do work to strengthen the middle back? I started failing on squats last cycle due to a new pain halfway up the spine.</div>
A pain in the middle back may not due to a weakness, but to form. If you think it's a weakness, then Totentanz's suggestion with rows should help, especially Pendlay rows. And in case you don't already do them, any back weakness will be corrected with deadlifts.
 
I keep trying to screw up some courage for deads, maybe the way O&amp;G does them, with hands at the sides using a trap setup. He and I have some back issues, but the midback pain is a new one. I do squats, rows, shrugs, weighted pullups every workout, and chins and curls at the end if I feel like some bicep work. (I've cut back)
I just switched to D/B bench rows, since the rows were also hitting that midback pain. I don't like them though; they don't really hit the back as well and my heaviest d/b's are 120's. (I can do like ten with those)

My rowing style is always straight up and pulling to the sternum, elbows out, not leaning forward like a low back row or lat row. Am I doing something wrong or inefficient?
 
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(kinggrub @ Nov. 16 2006,03:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"></div>
You want to be strong and grow ? Don't do any &quot;assistance&quot; work for arms except tricep exercises. That's my take.

Quad, I'd just stay away from deadlifts. Wide grip seated rows hit the middle back pretty good.
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 18 2006,03:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I keep trying to screw up some courage for deads, maybe the way O&amp;G does them, with hands at the sides using a trap setup. He and I have some back issues, but the midback pain is a new one. I do squats, rows, shrugs, weighted pullups every workout, and chins and curls at the end if I feel like some bicep work. (I've cut back)
I just switched to D/B bench rows, since the rows were also hitting that midback pain. I don't like them though; they don't really hit the back as well and my heaviest d/b's are 120's. (I can do like ten with those)

My rowing style is always straight up and pulling to the sternum, elbows out, not leaning forward like a low back row or lat row. Am I doing something wrong or inefficient?</div>
i have trouble with my back but do deadlifts and have no problem,i only have a problem when i do squats
rock.gif

maybe because dl is a back exrecise (mostly) that i concentrate more.
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 17 2006,06:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whilst on that rabbit trail, how would you do work to strengthen the middle back? I started failing on squats last cycle due to a new pain halfway up the spine.</div>
I wouldn´t be surprise if the shrugs are causing the mid back pain.
Shrugs and Heavy barbell curls also cause me middle back pain.

STRICT,STRICT, STRICT Pendley rows and seated pull downs with a narrow supinated grip should help your middle back.
 
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(Totentanz @ Nov. 17 2006,08:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just don't think that curls, etc are useful for assistance work. If you are going to do it, you should do something useful like hypers or weighted crunches, not curls. Maybe it's just my perception, but I believe that arms are rarely a sticking point for the big compounds. Grip maybe, but curls won't really help with that.

Quadancer - Are you rowing? I don't recall your routine right off hand... but I don't feel chins adequately hit the middle back.</div>
100% in agreement.
Seated pull downs or better yet chins and weighted dips are FAR better.
I like seated pulldowns when I don´t feel like chinning. Pulldowns give me a different lat stretch which I like to mix up with the chins
 
The reason for cable rows, rather than Pendlay is because of the #4 lumbar disc I crushed 30 years ago. I also don't do hypers, good mornings, or anything that bends the back with a heavy load because of this. I do weighted narrow grip pullups (on a 6-8 month cycle away from wide) but maybe it's about time to switch back to wide, which I can use my machine for. Also maybe take Steve's suggestion and go wide for the rows; since I'll have to lower the weight a bit, that will take some of the strain off my back. Good call.
My chiropractor is just dumbfounded. This came out of nowhere and has never hurt before. It's always been my #4 that's the problem. I actually think it started when I was up to 540 in the lever squats; I don't remember feeling it before.
Thanx for the comeback, guys.
 
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