5s complete!

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Sniggel

New Member
Finally I am done with the 5s. I have been planning on continuing with Max-Stim after this so I wont be doing more HST for now. But it is still HST principles I guess since I am increasing the workload over time.
I have been taking pictures every other week as well as taking measurements.
I would like to show the before, during and after pics so that we can add to the database of results with HST. But maybe I should wait until 2 weeks of Max-Stim so that it will be an 8 week cycle?

Personally I think I have grown a little. But its hard to tell. I have had weight gain and I think I can see difference in back, shoulders, chest and arms mostly.

So, should I call this a complete HST cycle and post the results or train 2 more weeks with Max-Stim, what do you think?
 
If I'm reading this correctly, you are stopping your 5's after 2 weeks? I've have been doing HST workouts for approx 5 yrs and have never stopped a cycle after two weeks of 5's. I think you will contiune to gain by taking your 5's out for at least a couple of more weeks. I'm 53 and my body has always been able to do at least 2 additional weeks at my 5 rep max before I needed a break.

I have been thinking about giving Max-Stim a try myself but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do some of my favorite exercises in a Max-Stim fashion(especially DB Presses).

Just an old guys opinion

Firm
 
Yes I am. I think it´s because I am impatient in trying Max-stim, and also because I thought I was able to cope with the training volume of 20 exercises. Which I did but the 5s took 120 to 150 minutes (3 sets * 20 exercises = 60 sets).
I really need to cut down volume and by changing to Max-Stim with few exercises per day (one press, one pull, one leg, 5 times a week) I should be able to cope with much higher workload since I will have much time to rest between exercises (and of course, rest between reps).
Also I really dont like training as seldom as 3 times a week for a longer period. I think thats why i chosed so much volume, to be able to be a long time in the gym when I was there as compensation for "low" frequency.
Thats me I guess.

Oh, and one more thing. I did HST because I wanted to try it out one more time. But normally I enjoy the aspect of getting stronger most. And now as I have found I havent gotten really stronger overall I want to push myself in some way with higher weights. Thats also a reason for me to try Max-Stim, because it allows high workload. Something I am used to train with.
 
why not carry on with 5s for 2 more wks drop all the exercises you dont need for strength..stick with compounds...then do max-stim.
 
Well, you seem to have a grip on what you're doing there...but I would have strung out the fives anyway: they're strength as much or more than hypertrophy. You could even go 5x5 and zigzag when you start to plateau.

Firminator: I haven't tried this, but I thought that if you built a box with no top or front, as wide as your elbow position plus a couple inches. You could lay back into the box (on a raised pad) and d/b press singles, and when at the bottom, let the fists rest against the sides of the box, relaxing the chest and delts.

Odd, but I think it would work.
 
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(quadancer @ Dec. 15 2006,14:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, you seem to have a grip on what you're doing there...but I would have strung out the fives anyway: they're strength as much or more than hypertrophy. You could even go 5x5 and zigzag when you start to plateau.

Firminator: I haven't tried this, but I thought that if you built a box with no top or front, as wide as your elbow position plus a couple inches. You could lay back into the box (on a raised pad) and d/b press singles, and when at the bottom, let the fists rest against the sides of the box, relaxing the chest and delts.

Odd, but I think it would work.</div>
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quadman you should design your own weightraining equipment..QUADTECH
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(Sniggel @ Dec. 15 2006,08:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the 5s took 120 to 150 minutes (3 sets * 20 exercises = 60 sets).</div>
Huh!    
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Besides the fact that you are an injury waiting to happen, you cannot eat enough to support that type of volume.

60 sets done correctly for the entire WEEK is more than enough volume for the natural lifter. My current program is 13 sets per workout, 3 times per week plus abs and neck work. However, I do each body part in a continuous giant set format which adds to the difficulty and makes it feel like 20 sets!      
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(faz @ Dec. 15 2006,10:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
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quadman you should design your own weightraining equipment..QUADTECH
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Thanx for the roses! More to come: I just built a T-bar row for six bucks. Wouldn't hesitate to put 500 lbs on it. Pics coming tomorrow.

O&amp;G - good post as usual. We missed that part.
 
20 exercises is WAY TOO MANY for max-stim. Max-stim is serious hard-core sh!t. I am doing only one set of 20 reps with m-time per exercise. And only 5 exercises. That is 5 total sets for the body (100 total reps). Today I was lifting near 90% of my 1 rm and the workout took an hour. With 20 exercises it would have taken me 4 hours and I would probably not have finished due too burning several thousand calories and passing out/getting sick.
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Today's Max-Stimulation workout log.
 
Hey Sniggel, I'm almost amazed you got any results at all doing 20 exercises! I would have to spend my whole day eating to make up for that little lot and there's no way I would recover enough between w/os. Are you sure it's really necessary for you? Have you tried doing fewer exercises?

Anyway, have fun with MaxStim but do take Sci's advice.
 
I am curious...what exercises are you doing?
I think even doing 15 exercises for the whole body would be plenty to hit EVERYTHING at every angle even for a professional who wants to hit the stage.
2 for chest
3 for thighs
2 for back
1 for traps
1 for side delts
1 for front delts
1 for rear delts
1 for biceps
1 for triceps
1 for calves
1 for abs

Any more than this and you will need to do a split.

I am nowhere near a professional bodybuilder's mass so I am looking for overall mass right now:
Squats, Rows, Dips, Chins, Press.  That should hypertophy all the major stuff to some degree.  When I am 220+ and ripped I might think of adding exercises to bring up lagging bodyparts.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I really need to cut down volume and by changing to Max-Stim with few exercises per day (one press, one pull, one leg, 5 times a week) I should be able to cope with much higher workload since I will have much time to rest between exercises (and of course, rest between reps).</div>

Sorry, missed this part. I was just so dumbfounded that you were actually doing 20 exercises in EACH workout that I think you are crazy! Very smart idea to cut down to a few basic compounds.
 
Ok, some explaining...
I thought at first it would be no problem to do these exercises. But after a while I realised that people increased the amount of sets in the 10s and 5s to have same total volume so i figured this was important and I didnt want to change the routine when I already started it. So I knew it was going to be tough.
These were the exercises i used, a lot of these exercises are isolations and therefor not as taxing as the compounds exercises:

Squat
Leg extension
Leg curl

Bench
Incline bench
Dips

Deadlift
Lat pulldown / Chins
Row
Dumbbell Row

Shrugs

Press over head
Lateral raise

Barbell Curl
Preachercurl

Pushdown
Dumbbell tricep (straight arm) extension

Standing Calf Raise
Sitting Calf Raise

Ab machine

I gained 3-4 kgs (8-ish pounds) so far so I must have been eating enough. It was only the 5s that took 120-150 minutes. The 10s and 15s took far less.
I am used to train a lot and I have trained with this type of volume before. But of course I agree it might be a bit exaggerated.
The reason I wanted all these isolation movements was because I recently had great results with isolations during a period recently. I know a lot say that Compounds are great for mass and I know it is. But in my experience, biceps (for instance) wont grow much from pulling exercises even if my back grows a lot and i get stronger, I have to curl as well.

Now. I am not going to do that high volume for Max-stim. It will be seriously cut down (3-4 exercises per wo). I havent decided on frequency yet, I will adjust it so that I can use my maximum strength each workout. You could say I have been &quot;overreaching&quot; a little bit with HST so far and by cutting down on volume I should get a supercompensation and be able to put on more plates on the bar. :-)

Oh, and if you wonder. Next time I do HST I will not have 20 exercises. This was a one-time thing
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To be honest it seems hard to see any muscle mass change. In the measurements I have taken I have grown, but I dont know how much is fat. It seems from the pictures I have gained a good amount of fat. This is from start compared to end.

Chest: +1 cm
Neck: +2 cm
Waist: +2 cm
Ass: +2 cm
Arms: +2 cm left / +2 cm right
Lower Arms: +1 left / +1 right
Thigh: +2 cm left / +2 cm right
Calf: +1 cm left / +0 cm right
 
Personally, I feel that it is very difficult to guage progress in such a short time, especially visually. Like you say some of your 'progress' is likely to be added fat. I think that top lift improvements in the main compounds are likely to mean more over the short term. Whilst some gains may be due to continued neural improvements I would suspect that most gains in a seasoned lifter (like yourself) would be due to muscle hypertrophy.

My method is going to be: lift for a year on a gradual bulk. Keep an eye on increases (or not) in big compound lifts and adjust training accordingly through the year to try to ensure they keep going up. At the end of each year, do a cut to get back to a similar bf ratio to 'see' any improvements.

I reckon that unless you are on roids it is difficult to 'see' any changes over the short term once you are past the first year of training.

I feel that as you say &quot;I havent gotten stronger overall&quot; that this cycle hasn't really worked for you. You must keep pushing up the poundages and pushing for new PBs in the big lifts. Too much volume can be as bad as too little volume.
 
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(Lol @ Dec. 16 2006,15:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I feel that as you say &quot;I havent gotten stronger overall&quot; that this cycle hasn't really worked for you. You must keep pushing up the poundages and pushing for new PBs in the big lifts. Too much volume can be as bad as too little volume.</div>
Yes I agree, 6 weeks is a short period.
My bench seems to have improved so thats positive. My deadlift seems to have stagnated. My squat might have improved.
Hmm well thats not so bad results. I dont know if I´m allowed to complain
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But still Im not sure because I havent tried to max yet. I will have to wait and see.
The thing is my previous training worked well and if HST is only as good as my previous training method than I see no reason to do HST as i did it this cycle. Personally I still think the lower range of weights are too small for me to do any good. I think progressive load from a higher % of RM works better for me (and lower volume).
 
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(Sniggel @ Dec. 16 2006,10:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Lol said:
Personally I still think the lower range of weights are too small for me to do any good. I think progressive load from a higher % of RM works better for me ...</div>
You're probably right but your joints and connective tissues will hate you as you get older. However, as long as you keep the 15's in every other HST cycle, you should be okay even if you start at 80% of your rm.
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(Lol @ Dec. 16 2006,08:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I feel that as you say &quot;I havent gotten stronger overall&quot; that this cycle hasn't really worked for you. You must keep pushing up the poundages and pushing for new PBs in the big lifts. Too much volume can be as bad as too little volume.</div>
In general I agree with this and thought the whole post was good.

One thing I'll note, though is that sometimes we have gained some hypertrophy, but can't demonstrate more strength until a brief deload to give the CNS a break (fitness-fatigue theory). No increase or even a decrease in strength doesn't always mean we didn't gain anything, but can indicate that we have been using a workload that is not sustainable for very long.

Probably in an HST routine this should not occur except maybe near the end of the 5s/post 5s, or the volume is indeed too high.
 
To be 100% honest, you look like you just gained fat. I think you look better in the 'before' pics. Whatever you were doing it didn't work that well.
I think you will see far better progress doing heavier max-stim workouts and doing only a handful of heavy compound exercises.

Not trying to be critical, just that your new plan sounds much better, and your previous cycle didn't seem to be very succesful.

I could be wrong...six weeks is very short.
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