5x5 Recomp

dax07

dax07

Member
Training:

Monday/Wednesday/Friday/Sunday: Full Body Training 5x5

Squat
Bench
Deadlift(Wednesday and Sunday only)
Pendlay Row
Overhead Press
Front Squat
Lat Pulldown
Weighted full flexion/extension crunches (optional)

All the "fluff" accessory work is not in this routine because I will have trouble recovering being in a caloric deficit most of the week. , only heavy movements are performed. I am still adhering to the principles of muscle hypertrophy.
1. Mech Load
2. Frequency
3. Progressive Overload
4. SD (I will SD after July or so, after I have slow bulked a few weeks)
Sunday training sessions are what I will use to judge progressive overload. My carb ups start at 12:00AM on Saturday, leaving me almost, if not fully glycogen stored by my Sunday workout, so it is an easy way to measure strength increases. Monday/Wednesday/Friday I usually work within 85-90% of my 5RM, then on Sunday, try to set a new PR 5RM. I know I may fail most weeks, but slowly I should be setting new PRs if I am recomping effectively, if not, I may up the calories on my deficit days very slightly.


Nutrition:

Monday-Friday(12:00AM)

-25% TDEE (For me which is 2250kcal)
<100g Carbs
180-200g Protein

The rest of the caloric intake is mainly healthy fats, and yes I am eating a good amount of vegetables.
I work as a server so the carbs are on the higher end of a low carb phase, I need them to think clearly as I do not like constantly going in and out of ketosis, or having mental fog because it compromises how well I do at work, therefore negatively affecting me financially. I figured being so active and on my feet all day I would burn through all the glucose quickly anyways, there is no way I will not be sufficiently depleted by Friday night after my work shift with added cardio in on non training days.

Saturday (12:00AM)

*24 hour carb load
*100g carbs every 2 hours. (Yes I don't mind waking up in the middle of the night to eat, I love food that much, especially boxes of rice chex and skim milk.
*180g-200g protein, 1200g carbs, <20g fat
*No training at all, will try to exert lowest possible energy while at work lol.
I will also be creatine loading over this day. (while I may question the effectiveness of it), in theory if I keep my dietary fat at rock bottom levels this day, I will not gain any body fat what-so-ever regardless of total caloric intake over TDEE, for more information check out Lyle's Ultimate Diet 2.0 or other related material for the explanation of why this works metabolically.

Sunday

*Earth shattering PR workout
*Maintenance calories or possibly +5-10% TDEE
*Macros will be well balanced on this day, probably with carbs tappering down by evening.



Will be tracking progress as stated above, will adjust calories as needed.
Main objectives are
1.) Progressive Overload successful on Sunday workouts.
2.) Noticeable fat loss during the week.
3.) High quality carb load.
4. No fat gain on carb load.

So if those 4 objectives are met, I will have successfully recomped. My approach is different than Lyle's, I tried UD2 and it was too difficult to do as a server because I felt like shit the whole time. It was a bit extreme but I managed to pull through 3 weeks of it with great results, but poor work performance.
My approach will focus predominantly on progressive overload because even if I do not lose fat, I certainly will not gain any, so if my weight increases on the damn bar, I'm golden. (I preach progressive overload)

What do you guys think of this? My current 5RMs are
Squat-275 (Never been a good squatter, working on it, my feet are almost flat so I have very little arch, I am experiementing with different approaches to fix my squat, I start every workout with squats because I place such high emphasis on them, even though my weights are pussy, I still get pretty nice hypertrophy in my legs)
Bench-285
Deadlift-405
Pendlay Row-205
Overhead Press-185
Front Squat-225
Lat Pulldown-210
Weighted Crunches-20 (8 reps with bar behind head)

Comments/Questions/Constructive Criticism/?
 
You are going to die with that volume, frequency and caloric intake ... I think Monday should be scaled back to 5x3.

Lift selection is great, but doing all of that on a cut feels 100% ambitious and 0-5% achievable. I don't know anything of your recovery, age etc.

Maybe with 3min rest period b/t each set, but then you're training for 3hrs or so. Deadlifts are not well suited to 5x5, I'd definitely turn that into a 1x5.
 
That's a lot of intense volume even if you were bulking.

How do you eat 1200 carbs on Sunday unless you are throwing in a lot of simple carbs?

Lyle means well and perhaps you can recomp a young body but I know that you cannot recomp an older body. Clean cuts and clean bulks seem to work best as you get older.
 
Well honestly I guess I can't consider it a 5x5. It is more of an HST tradition to where I will do as many sets as I want, my only goal is to hit the numbers I want to hit regardless of sets. With my heavyish warm up it usually turns out to be 5 sets. I only hit that target weight for 1 set, maybe 2 if I feel like I am recovering nicely. Deadlifts are usually not done on the same day as back squats unless once again I feel as if I need or can do it beneficially. And 1200g carbs is NOTHING for me to eat man. I will eat boxes on rice chex with over a gallon of skim milk and eat 10 bagels or more, there is actually very little simple carbs unless its a soda or lemonade (in moderation) I have an insatiable appetite, I can eat 8,000kcal everyday and still wake up in the middle of the night from hunger pain. Keep in mind I am an advanced lifter. I have been pushing weight since I was 15 and I am turning 22 next month. I am used to this volume and my workouts only take an hour or so. ~2 minute rest breaks although I don't care if that 2 minutes turns into 1 minute or 5 minutes, as long as I hit the absolute tension I need.
 
Comments: Week to week progress is usually only revealed in novice lifters. Aiming for that as a more advanced lifter seems overly ambitious.
Questions: Have you had good success hitting PRs while in a caloric deficit? What are your actual rep ranges since you're not doing 5x5?
Constructive criticism: I wouldn't squat and front squat in the same workout and I would be more realistic on how often I would attempt a PR. When we attempt a PR our form starts to deconstruct, which is fine occasionally but done repeatedly our weaknesses in the lifts are constantly revealed but never trained. This will lead to injuries.

Anyways I hope you report back with stories of success or failures, either way it will be valuable.
 
I think your criticism is sound, thank you. By the way my PRs are not actual true PRs. I am still reserving some strength left. my 5RM is actually what I could do maybe 6 times but I never ever train to failure because of my high frequency. Just a strong focus on progressive overload, not maximal strength I guess. And I am using a 5 rep plan, with warm up sets working to a certain target tension. No, I cannot increase my strength while in a deficit but, I am not in a deficit at the end of the week, I am actually probably slightly above maintenance by the end of the week, just during the first part I am in a deficit.
 
dax07 said:
Well honestly I guess I can't consider it a 5x5. It is more of an HST tradition to where I will do as many sets as I want, my only goal is to hit the numbers I want to hit regardless of sets. With my heavyish warm up it usually turns out to be 5 sets. I only hit that target weight for 1 set, maybe 2 if I feel like I am recovering nicely. Deadlifts are usually not done on the same day as back squats unless once again I feel as if I need or can do it beneficially. And 1200g carbs is NOTHING for me to eat man. I will eat boxes on rice chex with over a gallon of skim milk and eat 10 bagels or more, there is actually very little simple carbs unless its a soda or lemonade (in moderation) I have an insatiable appetite, I can eat 8,000kcal everyday and still wake up in the middle of the night from hunger pain. Keep in mind I am an advanced lifter. I have been pushing weight since I was 15 and I am turning 22 next month. I am used to this volume and my workouts only take an hour or so. ~2 minute rest breaks although I don't care if that 2 minutes turns into 1 minute or 5 minutes, as long as I hit the absolute tension I need.
Click to expand...

Ahhh .... ok, a lot more sense now, so it's basically just a MadCow 5x5. No worries then. I'd prefer to see two sets of three than one set of five, but horses for courses etc.
 
Hey man I may drop it to triples, much hypertrophy can result from it. Also my gym is 24 hours so sometimes I'll go back in for some more sets way later in the day.
 
Also, I hate you for learning how to train properly at 15 ...


I agree that 1200gms of carbs is fine, especially for someone at your bf levels. Although, something to consider is that the high proportion of carbs is probably connected to some of hunger impulses (v.low satiation).

I'd personally like to see less front squats if you doing sqauts and deads so often, especially if your bench form is tight w/legs under, but then you're 22 so I hate you for your age-given recovery ... sigh ... I need to be 22 again ... /rant.

Don't bother with creatine on one day/week only. Take 3-5gms every day of the week, or not at all.
 
Oh and meant to add that you'd surprised how your results will improve if you increase your rest periods to 3min (5min for 3RM)
 
I don't concern myself with rest periods. I just feel it out and make sure I have the strength to do my next set. I only eat ultra high carbs on the refeed, the moderate fat low carb high protein deficit days are what's hard for me. and even if I don't not set any PRs as long as I maintain my strength and my scale weight goes down that's still an effective recomp in my book :)
also I front squat every session and alternate between deads or back squats. it sets me at 2 leg exercises, 2 push and 2 pull, then optional weighted crunches. I'm only 2 days into this program, ill know how effectively im depleted by my Friday workout, it should be hell lol.
 
Monday I was probably fully glycogen replenished, I weighed 190 upon awakening. Today (Thursday) I am now 180. I haven't had an accurate test but I am assuming I am at 10% or very close. I am really looking to get to maybe a true 8% maybe even 7%. But also I do not want to lose strength, my main focus is on slightly increasing it while losing a small amount of body fat. I understand this will take time, but since I am satisfied with where I am now, I have all the time in the world.
 
It'd be interesting to see Monday versus Sunday pictures if you're interested in sharing. 10lbs is pretty significant.
 
No the 10lb difference is when I am fully compensated (Sunday morning) as opposed to when I am fully depleted (Friday morning) there is usually a 10-12lb shift in body weight. All of which will be back on by Sunday morning again before my training. I can post pics of this upcoming Sunday and then this upcoming Friday (1 week from today) morning.
 
Sorry I couldn't snap a picture on Sunday. I was a lot busier than I anticipated. I will take one Friday morning right before the carb load and will try to follow up with a Sunday morning picture when fully glycogen compensated. I will also post my weight for every morning this week so you guys can get an idea of how things are. And yesterday's workout was really nice I was able to add an extra rep on some work sets probably because of the huge strength boost I get from eating so much.
 
Okay bros here we are. Weigh in for this week. (Standard of waking up, pissing, shitting and stripping down to boxers every morning)
Monday - 186 (I was 190 Sunday before work, but I ran off a lot of water weight by working)
Tuesday - 184
Wednesday - 182.5
Thursday - 180

I decided that 180 was low enough. My energy was a little low and my main goal is progressive overload still so I decided to start my carb up a little early. My Sunday workout will be moved to Saturday and I will eat slightly below maintenance on Sunday. This is my second week of this recomp. I believe I have a small amount of definition gained, so possibly a little fat loss or maybe better glycogen storage. Strength has actually improved from last week, I did an extra working set on most lifts yesterday and today. This may be attributed to me using creatine throughout this cycle as adviced by Jester, instead of just loading on weekends. I will post another picture on Saturday and will follow up on my strength progress. Hopefully I can see a slight increase for Sundays workout just like earlier this week. Have a nice weekend fellas.
 

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You look good Dax. Also, Jester is correct on the use of Creatine Monohydrate. Factor into your analysis that most people gain 1-3% of their body weight within 10 days of starting creatine as it draws or stores water into muscles. No big deal but don't let it confuse you into changing your diet or thinking your glycogen storage has changed overnight via diet.
 
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