A bit of confusion

N

need2eat

New Member
So heres the deal.

I find my 15,10,5 rep max.

Enter that into the calculator per each exercise.

Then just do it.

How would this make me stronger, if Im doing what I can already do?


Say I wanna do it again, how much do I add to the weekly rep max's or do I have to test myself again?

Thanks
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How would this make me stronger, if Im doing what I can already do?</div>

Nobody said it would for sure but it is a common &amp; desirable side effect! It will cause hypertrophy!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Say I wanna do it again, how much do I add to the weekly rep max's or do I have to test myself again?</div>

You should have a pretty good indication during negatives as to how much stronger you got, so you would just use the new weight, technically speaking, the same percentage of increase would be used for all rep schemes.
 
not that I am an expert on this by any means...

I couldn't do the drop sets due to not having a training partner and the best I can come up with for a spotter is my 12 yo son. (hey if not anything he can strip the weights off while the bar is lying on my throat) What I found was by the time I got to my second two weeks of 5's I was considerably stronger. So I'd progress the weight each workout until I found my absolute max. And each time it went up quite nicely. So by the time I was ready to start my next cycle I had a new starting point for my maxes.

BTW...the last cycle I did...I went from starting with a max of 205 on my bench for 5 and went all the way up to 235 for 5. Damn what a great feeling it was to finally put up 4 plates. Just looking at the bar with two 45's on each side was a rush for me.

Good luck
 
Hey FireFighter, great lifting! I know what you mean about the mental breakthrough when you hit a new max. It's a great encouragement.

need2eat: using sub-maximal poundages and working up to your maxes in each rep range can and will stimulate hypertrophy if you have SDed. By the time you reach your maxes you will probably be stronger and able to surpass your previous max (if you tried). However, you should stick to your schedule and not adjust your weights until your post-5s. Then, as Fausto and FireFighter have said, you can continue to increment the loads until you find your new 5RMs. Use these new 5RMs for your next cycle.

For your 15 and 10RMs you could just add 5 or 10lbs to your previous weights. It's a good idea to note down how easy or hard your 15 and 10RMs were at the time so you can decide how much to up them by next cycle. Of course, you can, if you like, re-test your maxes and then SD.
 
Could someone explain the negatives aspect of this program, Im may have missed it.



Im trying to grasp what makes this routine so special. Isn't it like any other progressive training workout, except you manipulate the reps over 6 weeks and do a full body?


I may give it a whirl, just not clear....clear as mud.
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Thanks
 
Have you read the HST articles yet? It pretty much explains everything in black and white.
 
The frequency (training each muscle group three times a week) is the principle that makes HST so much better than most other programs.

Arthur Jones and Elington Darden in the 80's have recommended training the full body three times a week as well.

What makes HST significantly better than HIT, is progressive loading.
Training with maximum load all the time, will eventually lead to plateaue.

I find the most important factor (other than training frequently enough) to be eating.
(I agree with Totentanz on this one.)

I have to eat like a horse to make progress.
I believe training is secondary to eating (as long as you train reasonably):

Train great, eat so so = little or no muscle mass gain.
Train so so, eat great = fairly nice gains.

I actually find it really hard to eat all the calories I need.
It's really time consuming!
This might even lead me to spend more time cutting in the next few months, because I don't have enough time to eat...

Anyway, if I decide to continue bulking, I will consume twice as many calories from shakes as I used to,
(This means 1500-2000 calories from shakes...)
so as to make cooking and eating less time consuming!

(sorry for getting off topic, I just couldn't help myself after not having the time to reply for some time now.
by the way, my son is two months old today...
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)
 
I feel ya hammer: here in Georgia it's just too dang HOT to eat much! Shakes rock, but I wish I knew for sure what should be in them. The weight gainer shakes are a good way to get fat I found...you should only take them before a workout if at all.
 
Quad - you can make your own weight gainer if you want. Most weight gainers are basically just some protein powder, a bunch of sugar/dextrose, then a bunch of saturated fats. I don't like sweet stuff, so when I make my own, I don't put any dextrose in it. I just take a few scoops of whey, two cups of milk and about 1/4 cup of olive oil - you could probably substitute flax oil if you want, but I wouldn't use vegetable oil, heheh. Anyway, it ends up being about 1000 calories or so and in theory would be better than a weight gainer shake. Works for me anyway.

Hammer - I know how you feel. I have a daughter than just turned 3 months old on Friday. Between her, working 50 hours a week and dealing with my other kids, I hardly have time for anything. It doesn't help that once I get home from work, the wife is already tired of watching the kids and makes me watch them the whole rest of the day. Hahah.
It's not too bad once they get a little older. My other kids like to watch me workout and even do a bit of lifting themselves. My four year old son enjoys deadlifting for some reason. He pulled 50 lbs for 3 reps yesterday with surprisingly good form, though I won't let him use anything more than that yet.

Aah... anyway. You're right, eating is vital. That's why I try to push that so much. I found that my results were crap until I realized how important eating a ton of food was. It was real hard to eat a lot at first, but now I can pack away food like no one else I know. There is a contest at a local restaurant to try to eat this enormous burger in one sitting that I'm thinking of trying out.


Need2eat - to try to answer your original question: Have you read the articles, and read about RBE? That stands for repeated bout effect. Basically it means that when you use one weight over and over, eventually that weight becomes ineffective for various reasons. HST overcomes this by having you start off with a percentage of your RMs and working up to the RM. The lower weights are still effective for a while, and since you progress up to your RM, you are able to avoid RBE for a much longer time than you would if you simply used your RM each session.
You might think just using your RM each workout would be best, since you will gain strength and be able to add weight to the bar, right? Well, unless you are really new to lifting, you won't be making significant strength gains consistently. You will probably gain 5-10 lbs easily on each lift for the first few weeks, maybe even a bit longer, but it won't last. Eventually you will plateau. There are a few things you can do when you plateau, but they all involve taking some sort of break or deloading, etc etc, which means no more progress until you finish the break. Kind of limits how long you can make gains from those weights, doesn't it?

Well... with HST, you can keep going for a much longer time period. You will start out with around 70% of your 15 rep max and progress up to your 5 rep max. From there, you could keep using your 5 rep max for several weeks before you stagnate. After that, all you have to do is SD for 9 days or so and you can start again. You will gain strength and size just like you would if you were using the RMs the whole time - assuming you eat enough anyway.
If you think about it, an HST cycle is at least 8 weeks long, and you can easily stretch that out to 12 weeks if you keep using your 5 RM once you hit it. Compare that to only 5 weeks or so of progress from using your RMs each workout... seems like a no brainer, right?

About your other question. When you want to setup your second HST cycle, instead of retesting your maxes, do this: During your current cycle, once you hit your 5 rep max, on the next workout add more weight and do that. Keep adding weight each workout until you find out what your NEW 5 rep max is, since you will have gained strength over the cycle. Once you know your new 5 rep max, use that to plan your next cycle. You don't need to find your 10 or 15 RMs, you could just use your old ones or add a few pounds judging by how much your 5 RM increased.
 
Thats neat, I'm going to try the olive oil thing. I've been using ground scottish oats that I bulk ordered, then adding whey and skimmed milk to make shakes. They're about 500cals for a pint and quite nice. I struggle to eat enough cals required to cut!
J
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">He pulled 50 lbs for 3 reps yesterday with surprisingly good form, though I won't let him use anything more than that yet.
</div>

Looks like the next Arnold on our hands..

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[/QUOTE]HST overcomes this by having you start off with a percentage of your RMs and working up to the RM. The lower weights are still effective ....
That was a really good post Totentanz.
Click to expand...
 
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(Totentanz @ Jun. 25 2006,09:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad - you can make your own weight gainer if you want.  Most weight gainers are basically just some protein powder, a bunch of sugar/dextrose, then a bunch of saturated fats.  I don't like sweet stuff, so when I make my own, I don't put any dextrose in it.  I just take a few scoops of whey, two cups of milk and about 1/4 cup of olive oil - you could probably substitute flax oil if you want, but I wouldn't use vegetable oil, heheh.  Anyway, it ends up being about 1000 calories or so and in theory would be better than a weight gainer shake.  Works for me anyway.</div>
I agree. One thing about being older and having this slow metabolism is that carbs and fats together are dietary suicide, so I'm learning to cut out some or most of the carbs anyway. I like your shake setup. One problem I have now is that I want to bulk more but have a bit of a gut going from some negligent eating, getting married and all that. I hate cutting and am not good at it. I lose so much muscle, I'd rather be just beefy and a little porky than thin and not look like a lifter. Hard to grow at maintenance cals too.
Oh, I almost forgot: the local lifters at the supp store here have me using coconut oil, which is liquid at around 75 degrees or so and mixes well in the shakes.
 
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(quadancer @ Jun. 25 2006,22:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">    Oh, I almost forgot: the local lifters at the supp store here have me using coconut oil, which is liquid at around 75 degrees or so and mixes well in the shakes.</div>
Bad choice when it comes to saturated fats as Coconut oil is almost all saturated fat.
..................Fat/TBlsp...Sat..Poly..Mono
Coconut Oil...14..........12....0......2
Olive Oil........&quot;&quot;............2.....2......10
Flaxseed oil..&quot;&quot;............1.....10.....3

I would use a mix of Olive and Flax to increase PUFA and MUFA instead of Coconut
 
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(Totentanz @ Jun. 25 2006,14:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> My four year old son enjoys deadlifting for some reason.  He pulled 50 lbs for 3 reps yesterday with surprisingly good form, though I won't let him use anything more than that yet.</div>
Ha! My 2 year old has been imitating my breathing during a w/o for a while and has just started to bench my dumbbell bars! He repped out 2 sets of 10 and I was well chuffed. Okay so thats jack weight...but hey...gotta start somewhere.

PS. he also likes the taste of Choc Whey so I have to sneak out before a w/o to drink it.
 
Wow, Tot, 50lbs for a 3 year old?
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Your son will probably be bigger than us - combined!

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Regards,
-JV
 
Thanx for straightening me out on the Coco oil, Dan. Stoopid me for not checking...I thot it would be good coming from these Very Large In Charge fellas, so I didn't. Glad I didn't buy more of it.
HST people ROCK!
 
He's four, going to be turning five in a while. I don't know what is a good poundage for a kid, but 50 lbs is more than he weighs, so it's a good start. He could probably do more, but I don't want to push him. He uses a little curl bar I have from a while back that I never use. I'd like to teach him other stuff to do, but I'm nervous about having him bench or squat. He can handle rowing though.
It doesn't really matter yet, it's not like he's going to be seriously trying to pack on mass at this point... but at least he is learning habits of working out regularly. I think that's an important thing for kids to learn these days, especially with all the video games and everything to distract them from physical activity.

Now if I could just get the kid to eat more food! He seems to not like meat very much, even though I've told him that eating more meat will make him stronger.

NeeBone, if your kid is benching that right now, just think where he will be at when he is your age. Working out around your kids is a great idea, glad to see I'm not the only one doing it.
 
Need2Eat: You dont do just your rep maxes. The rep maxes are done only at the end of the 2 weeks for each rep number. The rest of the time you are working up to your rep max incrementally.

You are in actuality doing well below what you are able to do at first. SD will sensitize your muscles to load thus causing even the light weights to trigger hypertrophy. Your body will attempt to adapt to the weight but you will be incrementally increasing your weight staying one step ahead of it, thus continually triggering hypertrophy throughout the cycle.

Strength, barring individual factors, can be boiled down to two major components; muscle mass and neural skill. If you are triggering hypertrophy and you provide your body with what it needs to support growth, your strength will grow as your muscles grow.

When you are finished with your cycle you can either retest your maxes or you can just add 5% to each max. Personally I prefer retesting. Especially if I change something.

Do you need negatives themself explained to you or just how to progress in the cycle with them?

If you dont see how this is different from the other workout methodolgies then you should probably look at the articles again, if not several times. For me, understanding truely came when I consciously suppressed deep seated traditional &quot;knowledge&quot; about weightlifting and looked at it with a blank slate. Many of the ideas run directly counter to what is commonly &quot;known&quot; in weightlifting. When you get it its kind of a mild &quot;holy ****!&quot; moment.

Firefighter: Why cant you do drop sets without a partner? Do you mean negatives?
 
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(quadancer @ Jun. 26 2006,17:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanx for straightening me out on the Coco oil, Dan. Stoopid me for not checking...I thot it would be good coming from these Very Large In Charge fellas, so I didn't. Glad I didn't buy more of it.
HST people ROCK!</div>
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