A 'MUST READ' article

I was thinking the other day QD if one could perhaps periodize or alternate between systems. For example, alternate GVT and HIT with perhaps something of intermediate volume & intensity in between (GVT looks sort of impossible to me, however). I did some high volume work for a while just for chest and it worked. HIT also worked for me when I began using it after a higher volume approach. Of course, if you go to low volume high intensity after a high volume low intensity regimen you are following a typical periodized macrocycle, which is very HSTish.

I think there are a handful of motives for changing:
1. Variety and fun.
2. Experiment (looking to see what happens).
3. Strategic (calculated change in course to reach a predefined objective).

Periodization and HST are regimens that deliberately change parameters to create an intended effect. They are strategic. Your question of radical vs. minor, Quadancer, is a strategic question and immediately brings to mind the questions of Why change? and What to change? Bryan, as we both know, has written about this. It is the answers he found in asking those questions that are the foundation of HST periodization.

If you stay close to the shore of known research you will likely end up emulating HST, Max-Stim, or Kaatsu. If, however, you begin to venture away from shore and begin doing this or that while being unable to point to supporting research, even if there is some manner of reasoning behind the system, then you are experimenting. Who can say what will happen?
 
DC = Dogg Crapp training. It might actually be one word. Not sure?  
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One feature of DC training is pretty extreme stretching.

Here' a link:
DC Training
 
Thanx Q. - I'm not advocating anything radical but often wonder at the value of it. For now, I'll be playing safe with my latest profound revelation:
after reading thousands of posts on this board, I've come to the conclusion that most of us have most of our growth in and around the tens, which I've just extended into extra workouts. From there, I've begun 8's, the idea being to stay in the general range for as long as possible. Next, 6's then 4's...this worked pretty well for me before, done as linear progression.
And it's a great excuse not to SD for a while, huh?  
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Your turn: What's Kaatsu?
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 04 2007,14:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've come to the conclusion that most of us have most of our growth in and around the tens, which I've just extended into extra workouts.</div>
Interesting that you should say that as I've been thinking about extending the higher rep sets on my next cycle. Today was session 4 of my post 5's. I've been doing 5 sets of 3 and continuing to increase the weights each day. I've come to the conclusion that 3's are just too much for my old joints. My shoulders and right elbow are starting to protest. For my next cycle I was thinking about either extending the 10's by 2 weeks or do 15's for 3 wks, 10's for 3 wks, 5's for 2 wks, and then SD.

Any opinions as to whether it would be better to just extend the 10's by 2 wks, or extend the 15's and the 10's by a week each.
 
I think it would be better not to draw lines in the sand here. HST is a framework to begin with, and when &quot;tweaking&quot; it, you still have to listen to your body unless you want to end a cycle early or get injured. Especially you and I!
When I hit the wall, I pull out; I mean I either,
a.) repeat a weight (in case it's just a bad day)
b.) drop reps or,
c.) take an extra day's rest
Deciding on &quot;two weeks&quot; or whatever could find you wasting your time. Like weight goals, there are ideals that we strive for, but don't always make. Still, shoot for the stars to hit the moon and you've done well IMO.
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 04 2007,19:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">... after reading thousands of posts on this board, I've come to the conclusion that most of us have most of our growth in and around the tens...</div>
Really Quad? I for one have no idea when I experience most of my growth but my guess would be the 5s because it's the longest part of my cycle.

In reality, any two week period of lifting within a certain rep range is far too short a time for me to say, &quot;Yeah, that's where I grow the most.&quot; I feel that I make gradual gains during the whole cycle (assuming I'm eating and training right) that show up either at the end of the 5s, if I am able to hit new PBs, OR in the following cycle, at the end of the 15s. Sometimes the effects of new muscle tissue only show up after SD and when any fatigue accumulated over a cycle has had time to dissipate.

The different rep ranges make me 'feel' different because I am challenging different systems in my body differently during the cycle.

If we agree that strain on muscle tissue is an important factor in triggering a PS response and that, for any given movement, more load equates with more strain on the muscle tissue, then the strength of the signalling induced will be related to the strain and the TUT with the load. Because of this, I reckon one of the biggest reasons why seasoned lifters might feel that the 10s are more effective than the 5s could well be down to the amount of work/volume (and hence TUT) that they do with the heavier loads. Also, because the intensity gets higher as loads increase, it's very easy to drop off the TUT even though the strain factor is increasing. So, in order to get an increased response you would need to increase TUT by adding a bit more volume with the heavier loads, ie. by increasing the number of sets or total reps (clustering reps differently can help reduce fatigue, eg. 10 x 3 or Max-Stim).

What you then have to decide is how much volume you can tolerate with the higher loads and still be able to train frequently enough to maximise gains. It may be that for a well seasoned lifter it just isn't possible to do enough volume in the 'here and now' to trigger a large enough response AND to also keep the frequency at an optimal level (~48 hours) because you just get too great an accumulation of CNS fatigue. In this case it might be better to reduce the frequency to say 2 x weekly. A greater hypertrophic stimulus 2 x weekly might well be better than a weaker stimulus 3 x weekly. Feedback from some of the folks here who have been training for several years seems to suggest this.

I guess if you want to test your conclusion you would need to curtail a progression at around your 10RM and do a few extra weeks with those loads. Then take a week or so for SD and start a new cycle, returning to lighter loads again. I think if you did this you would find that you limited your gains rather than maximised them. But it would be good to know.  
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It doesn't surprise me that you're customizing the periodization aspect. In fact I'm just as enlightened as you are. When I read about periodization elsewhere it occurred to me that the prescribed times for each mesocycle were generic and their ideal lengths could potentially vary per individual and/or with other factors. Human bodies are not identical. Gray noted that 10% of his cadavers had a third biceps head, often called an accessory head. Some cadavers have as many as six. Moreover, the palmaris longus, a wrist flexor, is missing in one or both sides in 20% of the population.

Kaatsu is a Japanese system of resistance training that is based on the blood occlusion studies. Dan Moore had links to some of these studies at hypertrophy-research (Dan, I am begging you, please post those links somewhere like the MS forum). If you're not familiar with the studies it goes like this: partially inhibiting blood flow out of a muscle can cause hypertrophic responses in as little as a week and with as little as 30% RM (from what I have read). The exact mechanism is unknown. I do not know if the hypertrophic response is greater than traditional weight training. One article I read said &quot;doubtful&quot; but I did not really get into this part of the literature. Its primary use appears to be in training the elderly for whom heavier loads may be difficult to initially handle. I see it as a way to induce growth while sparing the CNS. Fatigue is not local (in the muscle), it is systemic, occuring in multiple places. If you can lower CNS fatigue while keeping the resistance stimulus adequate it could open other doors. This is just one lifter's speculation. Anyway...

Kaatsu requires a device that is basically a small inflatable dough nut. The dough nut goes around the limb(s) to be worked and is inflated with a small compressor the size of a Walkman that clips onto your belt. These devices are sold in Japan. I have not seen them in U.S. markets. If I were you and I wanted a Kaatsu I'd try to get one soon. If they become popular in the U.S. I suspect the gov't may get involved. Uncle Sam is intolerant of Sandow's Children. You never know what the FDA or some other agency will do. It only takes one high school athlete...

Here is a link to a Japanese seller. The site is written in Japanese. You can have it translated with Babel Fish (free). The translation isn't perfect but its readable.
Kaatsu training device and videos.

Babel Fish at AltaVista.com

Paste this to Babel Fish and select Japanese to English in the drop down box:
http://www.kaatsu.com/home/index.html

Here is the link to the Japanese Kaatsu Society at the University of Tokyo. It has links to journals and such. Its in English.
Japanese Kaatsu Society at U. of Tokyo.

And finally, here's a link to a forum thread that has a few blood occlusion studies posted. You can likely paste them into pubmed and bring up their abstracts.
Blood Occlusion/Kaatsu thread.

P.S.: Dan. You are cool and so are the links. Please put the links from hypertrophy-research back up.
 
QD,

The DC method looks pretty slick. He's doing rest pause (mechanotransduction) and statics (occlusion). I haven't done Max-Stim or PITT-Force yet, but I have done statics. They do add mass in some parts and when combined correctly with full range lifts can add full range strength. DC is keen on recovery but not fanatical like the HIT Jedi. And he's changing lifts up, which is something Westside Barbell advocates. I can't point my finger on any research save the mechnotransduction Dan has compiled but it looks to me like a good program to try. You mentioned that it brought up your strength. What was that like? How did it go?

P.S. By 'enlightened' I mean &quot;Ah-ha!&quot; My prev post sounds abrasive and I wanted to clear that up.
 
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(Lol @ Nov. 05 2007,01:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I guess if you want to test your conclusion you would need to curtail a progression at around your 10RM and do a few extra weeks with those loads. Then take a week or so for SD and start a new cycle, returning to lighter loads again. I think if you did this you would find that you limited your gains rather than maximised them. But it would be good to know.  
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i shall let you know in a few months lol.

the new gym i am using only has enough weight to go to around my 8rm,so i am going to start at 80% of my 15rm and rep out to form faliure,then  increase the weight every wk untill i reach my 8rm,then instead of increasing the weight i am goint to increase the reps by one every wk untill i cant get any more then SD,and start again.
 
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(faz @ Nov. 05 2007,10:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Nov. 05 2007,01:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I guess if you want to test your conclusion you would need to curtail a progression at around your 10RM and do a few extra weeks with those loads. Then take a week or so for SD and start a new cycle, returning to lighter loads again. I think if you did this you would find that you limited your gains rather than maximised them. But it would be good to know.  
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i shall let you know in a few months lol.

the new gym i am using only has enough weight to go to around my 8rm,so i am going to start at 80% of my 15rm and rep out to form failure, then increase the weight every wk untill i reach my 8rm,then instead of increasing the weight i am going to increase the reps by one every wk untill i cant get any more then SD,and start again.</div>
That's going to be interesting Faz.

I wonder how long an 8RM load will be effective for? Probably a good few weeks. My guess is that if your 10RM is around 75% of your 1RM then your 8RM is around 80% of 1RM. (As a comparison, 5RM is usually about 90% of 1RM so this should be effective for longer as long as you are getting in enough volume.)

Doing what you said to increase volume once you have reached your 8RM loads is a great idea. Once at your 8RM you could try sets of 5 to keep fatigue lower as total rep count climbs.
 
Lol: I totally agree with what you are saying. Referring back specifically to a thread we did on here about &quot;When do you grow the most; 5's, 10's, or 15's?&quot; or something like that, the general consensus was 10's or 5's, but some of us felt that there is a delay in the growth mechanism making it appear to be occurring during your present mesocycle, therefore the votes for 5's were more likely a result of loads incurred during the tens.
Secondly, I've always been an advocate of listening to your own body (as you also said) and my 54 yr. old bod is NOT the same bod it was at 43, when I first started lifting. I may or may not be right in my assumptions for the tens regarding myself, but I'm having fun with it regardless. Never did logs until MN and DC, so a lot of history was lost in the fog.

QP: I keep getting a picture of some nut with those inflatable dough nuts over his whole body looking like the Michelin Man! And surely some kid will put one around his or his buddy's neck.  
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DC: the problem with DC training is that it is actually impossible to do, in a sense. DC himself states that it is individual-specific and there is no &quot;book of rules&quot; that you follow to the letter. So we read everything we could find on the forums and sorted it out for ourselves. Steve Jones (and where are you man?) , me and another guy did it for I think 5 or 6 months, in the middle of our MuscleNow program, which was brutal. Other guys might grow on it, but we suspected that you needed to be a 'roider - despite what DC claims.
 
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(Lol @ Nov. 05 2007,13:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(faz @ Nov. 05 2007,10:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Lol @ Nov. 05 2007,01:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I guess if you want to test your conclusion you would need to curtail a progression at around your 10RM and do a few extra weeks with those loads. Then take a week or so for SD and start a new cycle, returning to lighter loads again. I think if you did this you would find that you limited your gains rather than maximised them. But it would be good to know.  
smile.gif
</div>
i shall let you know in a few months lol.

the new gym i am using only has enough weight to go to around my 8rm,so i am going to start at 80% of my 15rm and rep out to form failure, then increase the weight every wk untill i reach my 8rm,then instead of increasing the weight i am going to increase the reps by one every wk untill i cant get any more then SD,and start again.</div>
That's going to be interesting Faz.

I wonder how long an 8RM load will be effective for? Probably a good few weeks. My guess is that if your 10RM is around 75% of your 1RM then your 8RM is around 80% of 1RM. (As a comparison, 5RM is usually about 90% of 1RM so this should be effective for longer as long as you are getting in enough volume.)

Doing what you said to increase volume once you have reached your 8RM loads is a great idea. Once at your 8RM you could try sets of 5 to keep fatigue lower as total rep count climbs.</div>
im not to bothered about fatigue lol because i shall be taking an SD after.

but i like your idea about doing sets of five with my 8rm,i might try and get my 8rm up to about 10 reps then drop down and do as many sets of 5 with my 8rm as possible.
i have wondered for a while what effect more TUT and less load would have,but always been to woried about dropping the weight, so this is a chance to give it a tester,i shall keep you informed.
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(QuantumPositron @ Nov. 04 2007,20:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Kaatsu is a Japanese system of resistance training that is based on the blood occlusion studies.  Dan Moore had links to some of these studies at hypertrophy-research (Dan, I am begging you, please post those links somewhere like the MS forum).  

The exact mechanism is unknown.  I do not know if the hypertrophic response is greater than traditional weight training.  One article I read said &quot;doubtful&quot; but I did not really get into this part of the literature.  Its primary use appears to be in training the elderly for whom heavier loads may be difficult to initially handle.  

I see it as a way to induce growth while sparing the CNS.  

Kaatsu requires a device that is basically a small inflatable dough nut.  The dough nut goes around the limb(s) to be worked and is inflated with a small compressor the size of a Walkman that clips onto your belt.  These devices are sold in Japan.  I have not seen them in U.S. markets.  If I were you and I wanted a Kaatsu I'd try to get one soon.  If they become popular in the U.S. I suspect the gov't may get involved.  Uncle Sam is intolerant of Sandow's Children.  You never know what the FDA or some other agency will do.  It only takes one high school athlete...</div>
I probably won't post up the links to the Kaatsu or rather occlusion studies.

If you shot me an email I'll gladly email them to you though.

If anything what they will find is that occlusion training may be even more severe on CNS as the metabolic fatigue that ensues causes high CNS activity in order to maintain even these low forces. Also I'm afraid that in order to continue any growth the length of the occlusion or the amount of occlusion will need ot be increased as increasing the load beyond 50% MVC does not have the same effect. The inherit risks that come along with prolonged or increased pressure aren't worth it, in my opinion, and I truly don't believe it will ever equal good ole lifting. But it appears that it may be a very good strategy for rehab or as you point out the elderly.

The lack of oxygenation causes the highly oxidative fibers to exhaust and max out their firing frequency this inturn causes the recruitment of higher threshold fibers, something that normally isn't seen without sufficient load to recruit them. If performed long enough the high threshold fiber begin to exhaust and in order to compensate they reach their maximum firing frequency as well and therefore maximum tension. In essence a means to get full recruitment and activiation even at very low loads.

I did just post an occlusion study on the new Hypertrophy-Research that I found interesting for a couple reasons (I briefly point out why).
 
QD: I too have lost old records. I wish I hadn't. They're valuable. Nowadays I load them into a spreadsheet every so often (get OpenOffice if you don't have MS-Office, its free and works well -google it) and use Mozy, a free online backup service, to store it online in case of a crash.

Its a shame the DC method was so difficult. The two-on-one-off rotation was something I did when I was 19. I took frequent extra off days, likely because I didn't sleep much. Its a difficult rotation. I intend on trying it in the future. The only way to deal with individuality in lifting is to pay attention and consider carefully what to do when things don't go as planned. I have found since lifting again that its rare to get a stellar repeat performance on all lifts every workout. I have some lifts that go on a good streak for a while then stop abruptly, others seem to follow their own cycle of progression, and still others are all over the place and leave me scratching my head. This is in stark contrast to how progression is portrayed in so many books, both consumer oriented and academic, as being in one of two states: linearly increasing or at a complete stand-still. It is these observations that have led me to think of every lift as an athletic performance unto itself.



Dan: Thanks for weighing in on the Kaatsu/occlusion discussion. Its interesting stuff and your synopsis has saved me a lot of reading time. I think your site is the best resource for the science-minded lifter, with exrx.net coming in second. Now that we've squared away occlusion I'm still very interested in the work studies. I'll look through the new hypertrophy-research.com and if I can't find them there, shoot you an email - if that's alright. It may be a while. I've got a lot to do.
 
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