A Semi-Newbie's Training Log - HST/Stronglifts Hybrid
- Thread starter TangoDown
- Start date
_tim
Well-Known Member
Yeah - it's been my finding that at the end of an HST cycle, really focusing on strength - and I mean that to my core; not just doing lower rep work to do it - helps tremendously. But - that was my own, personal finding. I'd encourage you to try it and see how it goes if in fact the second round of 5's didn't make much of a difference previously.
_tim
Well-Known Member
Do your core compounds in the lower rep work - bench, squat, deadlift. If you do this right, the focus will be on those lifts and you may only have energy to do a tiny bit more work. Thing is - you split it up by day. So, if you're doing a 3-day split:
Day 1: Squat heavies, core work
Day 2: Bench heavies, curls, maybe some seated rows to allow your lower back to recover more
Day 3: Deadlift heavies, core work
The key is in how you structure the heavy work. If you intend on doing both triples and double, work up to a 5 x 3 for triples work and a 2 x 2 for doubles work. If only triples, work up to a 3 x 3. If only doubles, stay with the 2 x 2. That's how I'd lay it out.
Day 1: Squat heavies, core work
Day 2: Bench heavies, curls, maybe some seated rows to allow your lower back to recover more
Day 3: Deadlift heavies, core work
The key is in how you structure the heavy work. If you intend on doing both triples and double, work up to a 5 x 3 for triples work and a 2 x 2 for doubles work. If only triples, work up to a 3 x 3. If only doubles, stay with the 2 x 2. That's how I'd lay it out.
TangoDown
Member
Sounds like a transition to Wendler's 5/3/1. What do you mean by work up to 3 sets of 3? Do you mean go from 1 set to 2 sets to 3 sets?
___________________________________________
Squat: 2x5 175lb
Bench: 2x5 70lb dumbbells
Dumbbell Curls: 3x5 42.5b dumbbells
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 50lb dumbbell
___________________________
Everything felt good. Might be able to push squat to 185lb for 5 but we'll see.
___________________________________________
Squat: 2x5 175lb
Bench: 2x5 70lb dumbbells
Dumbbell Curls: 3x5 42.5b dumbbells
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 50lb dumbbell
___________________________
Everything felt good. Might be able to push squat to 185lb for 5 but we'll see.
_tim
Well-Known Member
No - this isn't 5/3/1 at all. "Working up to" a set is simply working up to a load that is about as close to the intended rep max as possible, perhaps minus 10 pounds. So - let's say that you're working squats....
Set 1 (warmup) 135 x 8-10
Set 2 (warmup) 155 x 5-8
Set 3 175 x 3
Set 4 185 x 3... If you feel at this point that the likelihood of getting 3 x 3 @ 195 is dim, do another 2 sets at 185.
The key difference between this approach and 5/3/1 is that 5/3/1 is highly formulaic in nature and it's all about setting rep maxes throughout the cycle. In this example, you'd program in 185 for triples and the last set you'd do for as many reps as you can manage. What I'm recommending is an approach where you let your body dictate the work as it's extra credit in the HST sense. So - if in fact you can manage a 3 x 3 @ 205 or 225 - do it. Just work up to it smartly and I believe you'll realize the benefit that we've been discussing.
Set 1 (warmup) 135 x 8-10
Set 2 (warmup) 155 x 5-8
Set 3 175 x 3
Set 4 185 x 3... If you feel at this point that the likelihood of getting 3 x 3 @ 195 is dim, do another 2 sets at 185.
The key difference between this approach and 5/3/1 is that 5/3/1 is highly formulaic in nature and it's all about setting rep maxes throughout the cycle. In this example, you'd program in 185 for triples and the last set you'd do for as many reps as you can manage. What I'm recommending is an approach where you let your body dictate the work as it's extra credit in the HST sense. So - if in fact you can manage a 3 x 3 @ 205 or 225 - do it. Just work up to it smartly and I believe you'll realize the benefit that we've been discussing.
nativetroutbum
Member
What is the latest research on mercury in tuna? Many of the "studies" I've seen are written by the "save the dolphin" folks so their results are likely biased. I've also seen "studies" by the seafood industry indicating you can eat cans a day and not have statisticaly significant increases in mercury levels... These results are also likely biased...
Last edited:
TangoDown
Member
So I'd be shooting for my 3 rep max by set 5 or whatever, on the first day of the triples mesocycle? Or would there be a short deload period (like zig-zagging) during the mesocycle?
_tim
Well-Known Member
No bud - this is balls out training. It's a vastly different methodology than what you've been doing, and in that vain I absolutely feel this is gonna do you a world of good. Bear in mind the difference between work sets and sets used to get to work sets. Going back to my example, if you're starting to hit a wall after the first 185 triple, make the decision to stay there and do the other two sets at 185. The one thing I want to stress here is that though these are heavier sets, you shouldn't be anywhere near failure after the first set, so you're not training 3 sets at your 3-RM. It's still sub-maximal training, but you're just closer to that line and as such hoping to create enough different stress in your body to enact change with heavier loads. That's the goal here - change. I know this is a lot to swallow, but give it a go. You do this thing right and next cycle is gonna be a new game with the better understanding you have about you.
TangoDown
Member
Okay, so:
First day after 5 rep mesocycle.
Squat:
warm up sets
175lb x 3
185lb x 3
If I don't think I can hit 195lb x 3, I stick at 185lb x 3 for 2 more reps.
Same goes for bench. But what about deadlift? 3 sets?
And after this first day, do I do the same thing again, every other day, for 2 weeks?
First day after 5 rep mesocycle.
Squat:
warm up sets
175lb x 3
185lb x 3
If I don't think I can hit 195lb x 3, I stick at 185lb x 3 for 2 more reps.
Same goes for bench. But what about deadlift? 3 sets?
And after this first day, do I do the same thing again, every other day, for 2 weeks?
_tim
Well-Known Member
Close, but no.
Warmups.
175 x 3
185 x 3... Tough but manageable: 2 x 3 @ 185 for a total of 3 sets of 3 @ 185.
BUT - if 185 is sorta easy, or if you feel like it's close but not enough to get to the type of muscle recruitment by set 3 that we're looking for:
195 x 3... Doing OK? Do 2 more sets of 3.
You do this for bench, squats, and deadlifts - and again if you do it right, you very likely will only have enough in the tank for maybe one assistance lift. If you've decided only to do triples, yes, do 2 weeks of this. If you're considering doubles - one week of triples, one week of double with the same method. Then - as Tot recommended - of you have anything left, test you 1-RM on the cores. Make sense?
Warmups.
175 x 3
185 x 3... Tough but manageable: 2 x 3 @ 185 for a total of 3 sets of 3 @ 185.
BUT - if 185 is sorta easy, or if you feel like it's close but not enough to get to the type of muscle recruitment by set 3 that we're looking for:
195 x 3... Doing OK? Do 2 more sets of 3.
You do this for bench, squats, and deadlifts - and again if you do it right, you very likely will only have enough in the tank for maybe one assistance lift. If you've decided only to do triples, yes, do 2 weeks of this. If you're considering doubles - one week of triples, one week of double with the same method. Then - as Tot recommended - of you have anything left, test you 1-RM on the cores. Make sense?
TangoDown
Member
So I just keep pushing with weight that is tough but not near failure. Okay. Sounds reasonable. Then with the 1 rep maxes recorded if I have fuel left, I can transition to Wendler's.
_____________________________________________________
Squat: 2x5 180lb
Bench: 2x5 75lb dumbbells
Sumo Deadlift: 1x5 230lb
Dumbbell Curls: 2x5 47.5b dumbbells
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 55lb dumbbell
______________________________________
Decided to do the 5 rep maxes today, skipping 1 submaximal workout. New PR on squat. I think I can push it to 185lb-190lb. Second set, after like 7 minutes of rest, I pushed out 3 reps. Probably could have hit 5, but I was in a rush because I had dinner with a friend and his family coming up in the next couple of hours.
Bench, the left dumbbell on the first set was in an awkward position so I had to drop the DB on set 3. I think I had enough juice to power through 5 reps, which would have given me a new PR. Second set, like 8 minutes later, I got 3 reps.
Deadlift, new PR. Think I can manage up to 240-250lb for 5. We'll see. Hoping to hit that 300lb 1 rep max soon which would put me a little less than 2x body weight.
Bicep curls, new PR. Tried to keep best form possible. A little leaning on the last rep or two but whatever. Nothing backbreaking.
Posterior Delt Row coming along fine. Don't know where my max is on that, but I'll just keep pushing up 5lb at a time.
_____________________________________________________
Squat: 2x5 180lb
Bench: 2x5 75lb dumbbells
Sumo Deadlift: 1x5 230lb
Dumbbell Curls: 2x5 47.5b dumbbells
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 55lb dumbbell
______________________________________
Decided to do the 5 rep maxes today, skipping 1 submaximal workout. New PR on squat. I think I can push it to 185lb-190lb. Second set, after like 7 minutes of rest, I pushed out 3 reps. Probably could have hit 5, but I was in a rush because I had dinner with a friend and his family coming up in the next couple of hours.
Bench, the left dumbbell on the first set was in an awkward position so I had to drop the DB on set 3. I think I had enough juice to power through 5 reps, which would have given me a new PR. Second set, like 8 minutes later, I got 3 reps.
Deadlift, new PR. Think I can manage up to 240-250lb for 5. We'll see. Hoping to hit that 300lb 1 rep max soon which would put me a little less than 2x body weight.
Bicep curls, new PR. Tried to keep best form possible. A little leaning on the last rep or two but whatever. Nothing backbreaking.
Posterior Delt Row coming along fine. Don't know where my max is on that, but I'll just keep pushing up 5lb at a time.
TangoDown
Member
Bench: 2x1 75lb dumbbells
Squat: 1x5 185lb
Dumbbell Curls: 2x5 47.5b dumbbells
__________________________________
1 rep with 75lb dbs...either it was a fluke or my CNS is shutting down. Squat I got 4 reps, and then my spotter pushed me up...think I could have gotten 5 so I'ma say I got 5.
Squat: 1x5 185lb
Dumbbell Curls: 2x5 47.5b dumbbells
__________________________________
1 rep with 75lb dbs...either it was a fluke or my CNS is shutting down. Squat I got 4 reps, and then my spotter pushed me up...think I could have gotten 5 so I'ma say I got 5.
TangoDown
Member
Squat: 3x3 170lb
BB Bench: 1x10 135lb
Sumo Deadlift: 2x3 225lb
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 60lb dumbbell
Dumbbell Curls: 1x5 40lb dumbbells
______________________
First time doing BB bench. Right now it's about equivalent to what I can do with dumbbells. Think I could have pushed a couple more reps out before failure. Next time, I'll probably repeat the weight with 3 sets of 5 reps, and then work up from there until I hit a wall with CNS adaptation, and then test for 1 rep max. Hopefully once the CNS catches up it'll be 200lb or over, which would be rad for someone who's sub-160lb and has only been lifting right for like 10 months (benching for like 8) - at least IMO. Course I'll be happier when I can bench 1.5x BW, which I hope should be a completed goal by the end of the year.
Squat felt right...kinda hard but not near failure as my 5 rep max is at the moment 185lb. Placing the bar pretty low on the deltoids now, which requires a wider grip (arm distance on bar), but also feels much more stable. Stance is a little bit wider as well.
Deadlift went fine. Tough, but not my 5 rep max. I don't know my 5 rep max, as the last 5 rep set I did was with 230lb. I assume my 5 rep max is anywhere from 240lb to 250lb. If 230lb feels even easier next time, I may up the weight for the following session.
Question for Tim or someone else with more experience than I...currently I squat 3 times a week and deadlift every other session (ala Starting Strength). Should I be rotating squat and deadlift for this triples mesocycle instead or can I just keep up what I'm doing?
BB Bench: 1x10 135lb
Sumo Deadlift: 2x3 225lb
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 60lb dumbbell
Dumbbell Curls: 1x5 40lb dumbbells
______________________
First time doing BB bench. Right now it's about equivalent to what I can do with dumbbells. Think I could have pushed a couple more reps out before failure. Next time, I'll probably repeat the weight with 3 sets of 5 reps, and then work up from there until I hit a wall with CNS adaptation, and then test for 1 rep max. Hopefully once the CNS catches up it'll be 200lb or over, which would be rad for someone who's sub-160lb and has only been lifting right for like 10 months (benching for like 8) - at least IMO. Course I'll be happier when I can bench 1.5x BW, which I hope should be a completed goal by the end of the year.
Squat felt right...kinda hard but not near failure as my 5 rep max is at the moment 185lb. Placing the bar pretty low on the deltoids now, which requires a wider grip (arm distance on bar), but also feels much more stable. Stance is a little bit wider as well.
Deadlift went fine. Tough, but not my 5 rep max. I don't know my 5 rep max, as the last 5 rep set I did was with 230lb. I assume my 5 rep max is anywhere from 240lb to 250lb. If 230lb feels even easier next time, I may up the weight for the following session.
Question for Tim or someone else with more experience than I...currently I squat 3 times a week and deadlift every other session (ala Starting Strength). Should I be rotating squat and deadlift for this triples mesocycle instead or can I just keep up what I'm doing?
Last edited:
_tim
Well-Known Member
Squatting 3 times a week seems high to me when you're lifting near your potential - same thing for deads. If you don't allow your body time to heal (aka recover) from the stress of the session, gains aren't very likely in the strength world. Go back to my original example.....
Day 1: squat + accessory lift
Day 2: bench + accessory lift
Day 3: deads + accessory lift
If you do the triples right, you're going to exhaust yourself to the point where you will need time to recover. Mind you, TD - these aren't hypertrophy-specific workouts and as such really aren't full-body in nature. They may feel really short, and that's ok.
Day 1: squat + accessory lift
Day 2: bench + accessory lift
Day 3: deads + accessory lift
If you do the triples right, you're going to exhaust yourself to the point where you will need time to recover. Mind you, TD - these aren't hypertrophy-specific workouts and as such really aren't full-body in nature. They may feel really short, and that's ok.
TangoDown
Member
Bench I'm currently doing for CNS adaptation because I'm switching over from DB bench, so I'll continue doing it 3 times a week until the mesocycle ends. I started out with my 12 rep max and that number should be steadily increasing for a couple sessions so I'm not near my max until the end. Doing 2-3 sets of 5.
So I guess today, I'll do squat/bench, and Thursday I'll do deadlift/bench. Saturday, squat/bench, and so on and so forth. So that'd leave squatting 2 times a week versus 3, and deadlifting 2 times a week as I usually do (every other session). That's 4-5 days between each lift as opposed to 48 hours. Accessory lift atm is db rear delt row for prehab purposes (bench-supported). Bicep curls...I'm just gonna drop for this mesocycle.
How's that sound?
This is essentially leading me into 5/3/1 IMO, because once I finish, I'll have my 5 rep max, 3 rep max (give or take, I can feel it out), and 1 rep max (if I find it at the end). So I think I might run that or some other PL program next.
So I guess today, I'll do squat/bench, and Thursday I'll do deadlift/bench. Saturday, squat/bench, and so on and so forth. So that'd leave squatting 2 times a week versus 3, and deadlifting 2 times a week as I usually do (every other session). That's 4-5 days between each lift as opposed to 48 hours. Accessory lift atm is db rear delt row for prehab purposes (bench-supported). Bicep curls...I'm just gonna drop for this mesocycle.
How's that sound?
This is essentially leading me into 5/3/1 IMO, because once I finish, I'll have my 5 rep max, 3 rep max (give or take, I can feel it out), and 1 rep max (if I find it at the end). So I think I might run that or some other PL program next.
Last edited:
TangoDown
Member
BB Bench: 3x5 135lb
Squat: 3x3 170lb
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 60lb dumbbell
EZ Bar Preacher curls: 1x8 Bar + 20lb on each side, 1x2 Bar + 25lb on each side.
_____________________________
Just wanted to see what I could do on the preacher curls, lol.
Actually had someone work in with me who was doing proper squats. Looked like he could have squatted over 200lb for 10 with ease. Talked with him about squatting/deadlifting/etc. Cool dude.
Squat: 3x3 170lb
Bent over Rear Delt Row: 2x10 60lb dumbbell
EZ Bar Preacher curls: 1x8 Bar + 20lb on each side, 1x2 Bar + 25lb on each side.
_____________________________
Just wanted to see what I could do on the preacher curls, lol.
Actually had someone work in with me who was doing proper squats. Looked like he could have squatted over 200lb for 10 with ease. Talked with him about squatting/deadlifting/etc. Cool dude.
TangoDown
Member
BB Bench: 3x5 140lb
Sumo Deadlift: 1x5 225lb
_________________________
Bench felt fine.
Deadlift, wtf. Warm up was easy, 135lb for 5, 185lb for 5. Then said, meh, I pulled 230lb for 5 reps (no straps) last time I went for 5 so I should be able to pull 235lb for at least 3....couldn't even get the ****ing weight off the ground. Tried with straps, same thing. Then pulled 225lb with straps for 5 reps which was hard but not at failure by rep 5. What gives? CNS shutting down? They do say grip is an indicator of CNS fatigue. Maybe it was a fluke. Maybe I just didn't pull hard enough. I had the dude from last time check my form (he pulls in good form and can probably pull over 300lb and he said he's around 180lb) and he said it looked fine - no early hip raise, no back rounding (save for the last rep or two because I can't set up the way I want with straps). Next time I deadlift I might try for a 1 rep max so if I do, I'm going to do singles. Since I can pull 230lb for 5 and I wasn't at failure when I did it, my 1 rep max should be somewhere in the 270s-300lb, so I don't see why I couldn't pull 235lb.
If squat is particularly hard next time, I'm going to cut the cycle early and just SD. Don't want to completely fry myself.
Sumo Deadlift: 1x5 225lb
_________________________
Bench felt fine.
Deadlift, wtf. Warm up was easy, 135lb for 5, 185lb for 5. Then said, meh, I pulled 230lb for 5 reps (no straps) last time I went for 5 so I should be able to pull 235lb for at least 3....couldn't even get the ****ing weight off the ground. Tried with straps, same thing. Then pulled 225lb with straps for 5 reps which was hard but not at failure by rep 5. What gives? CNS shutting down? They do say grip is an indicator of CNS fatigue. Maybe it was a fluke. Maybe I just didn't pull hard enough. I had the dude from last time check my form (he pulls in good form and can probably pull over 300lb and he said he's around 180lb) and he said it looked fine - no early hip raise, no back rounding (save for the last rep or two because I can't set up the way I want with straps). Next time I deadlift I might try for a 1 rep max so if I do, I'm going to do singles. Since I can pull 230lb for 5 and I wasn't at failure when I did it, my 1 rep max should be somewhere in the 270s-300lb, so I don't see why I couldn't pull 235lb.
If squat is particularly hard next time, I'm going to cut the cycle early and just SD. Don't want to completely fry myself.
Last edited: