AAS and HST

B

BArtyC

New Member
Ok so ive been using HST for quite a few years now and I definately gained more (size and strength) with it than I did in the 6 or 7 years before that but I have stalled and now Im thinking about using the short AAS cycle (2on/4 off) that is described (briefly) in the FAQ. I was wondering if anyone else had used it? and if so how exactly does it work? there are several issues raised in the FAQ that I dont get.
1. If I use the 2on/4off thing (with the 2 on being last week of 10s first week of 5s). Do I still SD? Should my weights be higher during the on part or should I raise my reps?
Would I be better to just do a whole cycle (or 2) of HST together and AAS the whole time?
Any thoughts??
 
You can always go with a Pulse cycle where you only take it on your workout days. I've tried that with PH's and had good results. Dr D. has a great write up on it over at anabolicminds.
 
Hmmmm, I wonder if that concept would apply to any other supps, including est blockers? That could be significant savings in the wallet. For now, I'm trying est blockers on a run. Seems to help.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Nov. 16 2007,07:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">For now, I'm trying est blockers on a run. Seems to help.</div>
What are you taking? Over the counter or prescription?
 
<div>
(BArtyC @ Nov. 15 2007,04:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ok so ive been using HST for quite a few years now and I definately gained more (size and strength) with it than I did in the 6 or 7 years before that but I have stalled and now Im thinking about using the short AAS cycle (2on/4 off) that is described (briefly) in the FAQ.  I was wondering if anyone else had used it? and if so how exactly does it work? there are several issues raised in the FAQ that I dont get.
1. If I use the 2on/4off thing (with the 2 on being last week of 10s first week of 5s). Do I still SD? Should my weights be higher during the on part or should I raise my reps?
Would I be better to just do a whole cycle (or 2) of HST together and AAS the whole time?
Any thoughts??</div>
From what I have read on the HST forums, you should...


1. SD (if you haven't already)
2. Start a bulking HST cycle
3. Take aas in the 10 or 5 rep ranges depending on length of cycle and aas taken.
4. Increase volume rather than weight once you reach RMs.
5. Continue RMs during post-cycle until nat test returns.





Here is a sample AAS HST routine I created:

Routine A: (Chest/Tris/Shoulders/Abs)
Incline Bench
Weighted crunches
Shoulder press
Weighted Dips
Inner bench press


Routine B: (Back/Legs/Bis)
Deads
Weighted Pullups
Leg Presses
Seated Rows
DB Curls


You could use this doing 2 days lifting/1 day rest. When the volume is getting easier to do, try adding another set.
 
<div>
(Bulldog @ Nov. 16 2007,08:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(quadancer @ Nov. 16 2007,07:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">For now, I'm trying est blockers on a run. Seems to help.</div>
What are you taking?  Over the counter or prescription?</div>
OTC stuff by ALR called 'Jungle Warfare'...I know I know- I hated the name too!
I definitely had a hormone problem. Tried a run of AndroGel at 5mg/day for a while, nothing happened, upped to 7-1/2 with little results there too. (felt a little libido for a while, no energy tho) Then started on this Eblocker just to be safe when I ran out of the test and *voila!* all of a sudden I feel human again. Nothing raging, but normal, ya know?
Estrogen problem.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. that pulse stuff is very interesting and it fits in very well with the HST workout schedule. Just thinking I might have to either increase the rep ranges or up my sets and stay with the same weights so as not to increse my chance of injury. Im already lifting pretty heavy (for me) so i think increasing volume is definately the way to go.
Im currently in my heavy 5's (negatives depending if I can get a spot) range so Ill probably start after a SD.
Im going to keep a training log of diet(and suppliments), training and Vitamin S use so I might post the weekly results if anyone is interested.
Cheers
 
just make sure your diet is in check, it is more important than the routine or any vitamin you can take!
 
Yeah definately will make sure my diet id right.
I would have luv'd to have had a chat to Blade about his 2 week thing and find out his exact protocol but it seem as though he hasnt posted in ages?
 
It would seem that the 2 week thing is a dated idea with HCG now available. I am guessing he would change his thinking on that these day...

If you are going to try it make sure you use the right aas, as it doesn't mesh well with longer acting ones.
 
I have a short action one (stanazol) you guys might know it as winstrol i think
I think Im gonna go with the pulse thing though. It seems to fit in well with the HST design as well and as Stana doesnt really cause suppression (unless you use a massive dose) and cant aromatise either I think its probably a good choise.
I mean Im not expecting mega gains as I might with a Test or even Deca but a good quality (keepable) gain should be attainable I think.
 
Wrong, stanazolol will ALWAYS cause supression. The Pulse idea is not a good one. Taking AAS only on workout days is going to result in a hormonal rollercoaster. Any exogenous hormone usage will ALWAYS cause supression.
 
By the way, since I've used Stanazolol in the past, I think I should warn you that the stories about Winstrol causing joint pain are true. Maybe if you are on a bulk and consuming a lot of fats, then you may not have an issue, but when I was cutting and taking Stanazolol, my shoulders felt tender all the time.

It's not a real heavy hitter and I probably would not recommend cycling it alone if your goal is to build strength or muscle. You would be better off with a base of test (since your natural test is going to be suppressed anyway) and using Stanazolol to kick off the cycle and to close it up before starting PCT. It is nice how it does not aromatize, but don't be fooled, it still has sides of it's own. Besides suppression, it will likely cause acne and can cause sexual side effects (not the good kind) probably due to the suppression of testosterone. I did not experience acne from my short cycle but near the end, I did have some other troubles.

Anyway, if you do run a stan only cycle, be mindful that you will still need PCT whether you do a short or long cycle. Also, since it is liver toxic, don't run it for very long.
 
Thanks a lot for that feedback. I am aware of the joint issues with it.
I think I am using it because it isnt a heavy hitter. I just want to try to push past where I am at the moment.
What other troubles did you have with it? coulod they have been caused by the other stuff or a combination rather than just the stana?
Im not intending to run very long anyways. Maybe 6-8 weeks (probably a HST cycle) but I will make sure I have PCT lined up to finish it off with.
Thanks a lot Totentanz
 
Other than the tender shoulders, the only other huge problem I had was that on the fourth week, I started having sexual problems. That really sucked. Keep in mind that Winstrol can also be really harsh on your cholesterol. So... if you have cholesterol problems, you may want to skip the Winstrol. Also, I'd highly recommend getting your cholesterol checked before you start, and then again after PCT, just to be safe.

I only cycled for a month, during a cut, so maybe the joint issue would be fixed by higher calories, like I suggested above. Most people use Winstrol for cutting, and most people complain of joint pain, so maybe there is a correlation there. Maybe not. I don't know. Just watch out for that.

I don't regret taking it, though looking back now, I can see that I could easily have gotten those results without taking it. I wish I had bulked while taking it instead, because that would likely have made a huge difference.
Regardless, it was an amazing experience. I felt awesome that month, even though I was dieting, I was throwing up bigger numbers all the time. It was great.
 
I think what Totentanz said about supression and cholesterol is right but it also depends on the type of a chemical being used.
If the supplement company 'science' behind methylated Epitiostanol is corrrect, you have a legal compound that acts as an estrogen blocker and would be a good choice for pulsing since it would initially increase LH, therefore endogenous test production on the off days during a pulse cycle.
It also supposedly binds relatively strongly to androgen receptors, so that it would be perfect as a cutting agent or a body recomposition drug.
I tried pulsing for two weeks during a cut.
In my limited experience, I lost 3.0 lbs of fat and gained 0.8 lbs of muscle (I was cutting) the first week and did not experience any 'emotional roller-coaster'. The only side effect was increased libido.
Also, I'm 6 days post my last 40mg workout dosage and libido is normal (no shutdown?...possible).
If this is all true, this would be an amazing 'supplement' to use in an HST fashion.
My theory is that two week periods will provide you with slightly increased anabolism and help with the fat burning, but should not affect HPTA and cholesterol levels to a high degree.
Remeber, this is an un-proven theory. There are a lot of user experiences you can check out online, but it would be nice to see a double-blind research study looking at all of this. Nothing I have found as of yet, except this:
2a 3a-Epithio-5-androstan-17ß-ol in Treatment of Gynecomastia
It's also important to note that many users would not suggest oral only cycles, since most of the gains are lost post-cycle. It seems that some orals will bind to glucocorticoid receptors preventing cortisol binding. This, I think, is one of the reasons for joint pain many feel. Post oral cycle also, is a big problem when catabolism (glucocorticoid receptor increase maybe?...) takes over and you lose most of what you gained. And, I'm not talking using aromatizable orals like D-bol, because those gains seem to be mainly water weight.
Therefore, in my opinion, it is best to have only a slight nudge in the anabolic direction (a two week, pulsing, methylated epitiostanol, HST fashion, bulking) to prevent crashes and muscle loss, post-cycle. This is opposed to long, heavy, very anabolic cycles, possibly followed by long and heavy catabolic body response.
Seems logical, for every action there is a reaction. The bigger the action, bigger reaction will follow.
This might be also good for cholesterol (I'll be checking mine). I can keep you posted if you want.
Or.....you can go with a 5-8 week full blown cycle, but everybody recommends test as a base for this, and of course a proper PCT including Arimidex, Nolva, HCG. I just don't like messing with that many drugs. And, Nolva is carcinogenic...
Cheers
 
Yeah, oral only cycles are a bad idea in general but it isn't true that you lose all your gains post-cycle. That's just a horror story made by the bros to keep newbies from running oral only cycles. If that theory were true, then all the old greats who got huge off of Dianabol... well, wouldn't have gotten huge.

Anyway, I don't think estrogen blockers are what you want to look at. Unless you have a medical condition that is causing you to have too much estrogen, then it is a bad idea. You do need some estrogen in your body. The only time I would recommend something like that is if you are prescribed them or if you are on AAS, and even then, I don't think E blockers are a good idea. You can use something to stop aromatization during the cycle instead

Also, just a small point, but you wouldn't use Arimidex or HCG for PCT. Those would be run during cycle, not afterward. HCG after cycle is a bad idea, it's main effects are only felt during the cycle. And Arimidex, well, there just isn't any point to using that post cycle.

My opinion is that if you are going to use AAS, you might as well do a full cycle. You should use testosterone as a base, run a full length cycle (at least 10-12 weeks), use HCG during cycle, possibly Arimidex or similar if you have problems with estrogen, and don't fool around with mini-cycles. If you want, you can use orals or short esters to kick off the cycle.

Probably the only thing I would consider for a short cycle would be Tren. If I were willing to use AAS again, that's one I would definitely want to use. That stuff sounds amazing.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Anyway, I don't think estrogen blockers are what you want to look at.  Unless you have a medical condition that is causing you to have too much estrogen, then it is a bad idea.  You do need some estrogen in your body.  The only time I would recommend something like that is if you are prescribed them or if you are on AAS, and even then, I don't think E blockers are a good idea.  You can use something to stop aromatization during the cycle instead
</div>
That's why pulsing might be a good idea. By inhibiting estrogen binding you can manipulate your HPTA to produce more LH. Also, you will not necessarily inhibit your estrogen production (just like you would with AI's) just inhibit it from acting for a relatively short time.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, just a small point, but you wouldn't use Arimidex or HCG for PCT.  Those would be run during cycle, not afterward.  HCG after cycle is a bad idea, it's main effects are only felt during the cycle.  And Arimidex, well, there just isn't any point to using that post cycle.
</div>
I agree. I just wanted to point out a possible need for a plethora of drugs during and post long cycles.
 
i personally wouldnt use e-blockers because of how important estrogen in the body is, if you supress all estrogen in your body for too long you could have some real problems estrogen is very important for bone density and joint health to name but two.

also with certain anti estrogens you can end up hurting your gains , especially when using 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, these can will reduce the conversion of test etc to dht which is a very powerful androgen in its self(although some would welcome a drop in dht).

also i think hcg in a test only cycle is complete overkill, and if you are prone to gyno it could potentially make things worse. i would use something like nolvadex for pct.hcg really comes into play when you start using nandrolone or trenbolone , which supress the hpta heavily.

finally although oral cycles can be useful and not all gains are lost, they arent really healthy for long term use.winstrol as said above is for cutting really although small lean gains should/could be made.

test is best!
 
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