About to start another Progression

Z

Zog

New Member
Well I'm about to start my 10th(ish), cant remember for sure, hst progression and i feel that my routine has become bloated and would like to get back to a more lean regimen. So basically im looking for some advice on what to keep, throw out, or even add.

Ive been going 6days a week lifting split into 3 a and 3 b workouts. Off topic its now in my schedule where i could probably do a AM PM three days a week routine. Anyone tried both and have any advice to the benefits of either?

Here are my splits.

A
2 work sets of bench press
1 set of some variation of a chest fly
2 sets Ab work 2 sets (varies)
1 set Military press
1 set of heavy shrugs
1 set rear delt flys
1 set lateral raises
2 sets of tricep work (lately one handed cables 1 normal grip 1 reverse)

B
2 sets leg press
2 calve sets (variable)
1 set leg curl
1 set leg extension
2 sets Lat Pull down (one narrow grip one wide grip)
2 sets Cable back row (one narrow grip one wide grip)
1 set stiff leg deadlift
1 set preacher curl
1 set concentration curl
2 sets of fore arm work (varies)

I feel that B split is especially bloated and could use some trimming.

Notes on my self. Im a fairly advanced lifter, 5 years +, so i can handle some volume , but at the end of recent progression i've been suffering some minor bicep overuse injuries i think due to excess volume. And just to give some strength references at the end of my last progression my 5rm for bench was 300 leg press 800 and stiffleg deadlift was 285. Fairly heavy weights and i can't really handle the CNS strain of a full body workout 3 days a week and keep my energy up through the entire thing. That is why i've been doing 6 days and was asking about the 3 days am/pm to maybe allow for more rest.

Any help would be greatly appreaciated.

thanks
 
Wow Zog... long time HST'er, but not much of a poster? You should check out Fausto's simplify and win thread. Basically, clean up your routine and focus on what counts.

A: Bench Press, Military Press, Shrugs
B: Leg Press, SLDL, Lat Pulldown, Row

I would alternate the Leg Press and SLDL's. Also, the Lat Pulldowns and Rows should be alternated for increased frequency...

A: Bench Press, Shrugs, Leg Press, Row
B: SLDL, Lat Pulldown, Military Press

Now, let's add some filler (specialization)


A: Bench Press, Shrugs, Leg Press, Row, Abs
B: SLDL, Lat Pulldown, Military Press, Pec Fly, Calves
 
Ya i started back in early 2005, but have only posted a few times. Not really sure why. I guess more of a solitary gym rat. I'm the big guy at my gym with the headphones who doesnt say much when lifting. Guess it just translated here.

Anyway thanks for the help. Just seems i kept adding in excerises over the past couple years, but at the end of the last progression i looked and my excerise total and realized there was a problem.
 
Any particular reason why you aren't doing conventional deadlifts or squats? Just wondering. I'd find it hard not to do deadlifts...
 
So after reading fastos thread heres what i have come up with. Just wondering if its still too much?

1 set of everything

AM
Bench
wide dips
Abs
Miltary Press
shrugs
Slightly bent lateral Raise
tricep iso

PM
Leg Press...(dont like squats im 6'3 and feel that too much back too little leg is involved if i go deep if anyone could offer any advice here i'd appreciate it)
Leg curl
Calves
Chins or lat pull down
Narrow grip rows
SLDL (Every other work out during 5's+)
one bicep iso
forearms
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 22 2007,14:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Any particular reason why you aren't doing conventional deadlifts or squats? Just wondering. I'd find it hard not to do deadlifts...</div>
Squat is explained above. But the fact is I'm pretty tall 6'3, and i just cant seem to get a the same quality of leg work out i do out of leg press.

Deads im not sure. i used to do them just gradually moved to SLDL for some reason. Probably because i thought they went better with leg press rather then leg pressing and deadlifting in the same day.
 
Zog,
I'm not about to give a guy with your experience any advice, but I do have a question. I'm curious as to why you don't do squats or deadlifts?
 
<div>
(EL_VIEJO @ Dec. 22 2007,14:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Zog,
I'm not about to give a guy with your experience any advice, but I do have a question. I'm curious as to why you don't do squats or deadlifts?</div>
Looks like we posted at the same time. Check above.
 
Well, if you did deadlifts and alternate with leg press, you could drop the forearm and leg curl. About squats, have you tried front squats? They take a bit of getting used to, but I like them better than back squats so far. I'm fairly tall too, though only 6'1 so not as tall as you, and I find front squats, once you become accustomed to the arm positioning, to be more comfortable than back squats.


As for your routine... I'm not a fan of AM/PM splits, as I think you'd be better off going to the gym once and spending the rest of your free time eating and resting instead. But anyway, I think you'd be well off to abbreviate even further, alternating between workouts instead of doing all the exercises in one day. You can do more sets of each exercise instead of doing more exercises.

Example:

Day 1

Dead
Bench
Chins or Lat Pull Down
Military Press
Calves
Triceps

Day 2

Leg Press
SLDL
Dips
Rows
Shrugs
Biceps
Abs


Obviously you are a fairly experienced lifter, but I think moving to something more like this would definitely produce some good results assuming an adequate calorie intake.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 22 2007,15:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, if you did deadlifts and alternate with leg press, you could drop the forearm and leg curl. About squats, have you tried front squats? They take a bit of getting used to, but I like them better than back squats so far. I'm fairly tall too, though only 6'1 so not as tall as you, and I find front squats, once you become accustomed to the arm positioning, to be more comfortable than back squats.</div>
I have tried front squats..I really found the arm positioning ackward, and probably gave up on them too soon. It something i should consider for my next progression.

When i was doing them i remember them hurting my wrists quite a bit. Did you expierence the same thing? If so how did you deal with that.
 
I think my expierence my actually have been a problem. I ended both of my last 2 progression a week early due to overuse injuries. I think i may have gotten too cocky (and older can't recover as fast) thats why i came back to the boards to get some fresh ideas.
 
<div>
(Zog @ Dec. 22 2007,15:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 22 2007,15:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, if you did deadlifts and alternate with leg press, you could drop the forearm and leg curl. About squats, have you tried front squats? They take a bit of getting used to, but I like them better than back squats so far. I'm fairly tall too, though only 6'1 so not as tall as you, and I find front squats, once you become accustomed to the arm positioning, to be more comfortable than back squats.</div>
I have tried front squats..I really found the arm positioning ackward, and probably gave up on them too soon. It something i should consider for my next progression.

When i was doing them i remember them hurting my wrists quite a bit. Did you expierence the same thing? If so how did you deal with that.</div>
That's a common problem. The thing is, you have to make sure you have your elbows forward, directly in front of you. It's kind of hard to explain, let me find a link about it for you to explain it. They were hurting my wrists at first because I wasn't holding the bar right. Once you get the arm positioning down, then it becomes a lot easier.


Here is the link I was thinking of:
Elbow Position
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 22 2007,15:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Zog @ Dec. 22 2007,15:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 22 2007,15:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, if you did deadlifts and alternate with leg press, you could drop the forearm and leg curl. About squats, have you tried front squats? They take a bit of getting used to, but I like them better than back squats so far. I'm fairly tall too, though only 6'1 so not as tall as you, and I find front squats, once you become accustomed to the arm positioning, to be more comfortable than back squats.</div>
I have tried front squats..I really found the arm positioning ackward, and probably gave up on them too soon. It something i should consider for my next progression.

When i was doing them i remember them hurting my wrists quite a bit. Did you expierence the same thing? If so how did you deal with that.</div>
That's a common problem. The thing is, you have to make sure you have your elbows forward, directly in front of you. It's kind of hard to explain, let me find a link about it for you to explain it. They were hurting my wrists at first because I wasn't holding the bar right. Once you get the arm positioning down, then it becomes a lot easier.


Here is the link I was thinking of:
Elbow Position</div>
Thanks for the link.

I'll mix it on my leg press days until i can get comfortable with it.
 
Not sure what your bicep injury is, but two things:
If you completely skip iso's, the rows will maintain your size whilst healing up. And...
ROM can be a problem for many with curls; you can simply stop full extension and shorten the ROM and spare the elbow joints while still getting the bi's plenty of work.
 
<div>
(Zog @ Dec. 22 2007,15:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When i was doing them i remember them hurting my wrists quite a bit. Did you expierence the same thing? If so how did you deal with that.</div>
I want to incorporate front squats into my next cycle and have the same problem. That's the position that olympic lifters call 'racking the bar' after a clean. When I move my elbows to the correct position, as per Tot's link, my hands end up next to my ears. I'm only 5'6&quot;, but maybe I either have abnormally long forearms or a considerable lack of flexibility. There's a well known photo of Dave Draper doing front squats with Arnold where he has the bar across his shoulders as in picture 3 of Tot's link and his hands crossed at his throat holding on to the bar (he also has his heals on a 2x4, which was common at the time but considered a bad idea now-a-days). You might want to try holding the bar like that. There are some purists who consider that a wimpy way to hold the bar for a front squat, but at 6'3&quot; you could just kick their asses if they laugh.
smile.gif
 
<div>
(EL_VIEJO @ Dec. 22 2007,16:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There's a well known photo of Dave Draper doing front squats with Arnold where he has the bar across his shoulders as in picture 3 of Tot's link and his hands crossed at his throat holding on to the bar (he also has his heals on a 2x4, which was common at the time but considered a bad idea now-a-days). You might want to try holding the bar like that.</div>
Holding the bar with crossed arms works well, though I find that I have to concentrate on not letting it roll down my arms...
smile.gif
 
With the position I was talking about, it helps if you don't try to hold the bar in your hands in the top position. You hold it on your delts mostly, I usually only have maybe a couple fingers from each hand still on the bar, just to keep it balanced.
It does require some flexibility, and the cross-armed position seems to work just fine for most.

Also, if you haven't seen them, I suggest watching the Squat RX series on youtube.
Here is the Front Squat Episode
Especially around the 5:30 mark, he starts to talk specifically about wrist pain issues, shoulder and arm flexibility, etc.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 23 2007,11:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">With the position I was talking about, it helps if you don't try to hold the bar in your hands in the top position. You hold it on your delts mostly, I usually only have maybe a couple fingers from each hand still on the bar, just to keep it balanced.
It does require some flexibility, and the cross-armed position seems to work just fine for most.

Also, if you haven't seen them, I suggest watching the Squat RX series on youtube.
Here is the Front Squat Episode
Especially around the 5:30 mark, he starts to talk specifically about wrist pain issues, shoulder and arm flexibility, etc.</div>
Awesome video series, I actually watched a couple of them. Good Find.
 
I think a lot of good things have been said already. Totz last link to the Squat RX vid is a really good one. Warming up your wrists before a front squat session is a good idea. I had a lot of bother with my wrists when I started front squatting and found that wrist warm ups and stretching definitely helped to ease the discomfort. Flexibility will come with perseverance so hang in there.

One thing that can cause a lot more strain on the wrists is allowing your elbows to drop at the bottom of the descent. Once that happens you are going to be taking a lot more weight on your hands and wrists rather than your delts. This is easily done if you get fatigued at the end of a set or if you try a heavier load than you are used to. Be sure to keep your lower back really tight before descending and make a conscious effort to keep your elbows up. That'll help to keep your head up too.

As your wrist flexibility improves you will be able to keep all your fingers around the bar in the racked position. Initially, I allowed a finger or two to unwrap from the bar to relieve a bit of the strain I was feeling. I would only resort to folding my arms in front at the end of a set when my wrists were really sore. Rippetoe doesn't recommend doing this but as long as you keep your torso in the correct position you should find that you can still keep pretty good control of the bar.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Dec. 23 2007,11:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, if you haven't seen them, I suggest watching the Squat RX series on youtube.
Here is the Front Squat Episode
Especially around the 5:30 mark, he starts to talk specifically about wrist pain issues, shoulder and arm flexibility, etc.</div>
Terrific series. Thanks for posting the link.
 
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