Almost halfway through HST AAS cycle

Spyke

New Member
I am 5 weeks into my first (and only) HST cycle on AAS. I have gained between 7-11 lbs so far (weight fluctuates big time).

Gained over 1/2" on biceps and almost an inch on the chest.

Waist is down too but not sure how much. But I have lost some fat and pants are looser.

Eating like a cow. Hard to gain weight.

Strength is up big time. I have been doing standard HST plus dropsets and even doing double workouts AM/PM when I can. I still feel like doing more. I have actually considered lifting every day (but I wont), That is how strong I feel.

No signs of overtraining yet....

I will keep you guys posted. The guys I talk to say that a test cycle usually takes 4-5 weeks to kick in. So I cant wait to see what happens in the next several weeks.
 
Excellent results!
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I didn't think cows eat that much
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I'd recommend doing more volume, since you're on AAS, how many reps/sets are you doing? You may be about to do 25-30+ reps per bodypart per workout, many natural lifters are getting good results on this.

List your diet you may not being getting enough calories overall if you're losing body fat. AAS obviously changes things but if you're losing fat then you're not maximising your muscle gaining potential.

Since you're probably paying a lot of money for your AAS, I'd say you'd want to improve your training and diet will maximise results. Give us more info and we can help more.
 
Cycle is 400mg per week of test cyp and .5 mg arimidex every day. This is my first ever cycle of AAS. A basic test only cycle is usually reccomended for first timers before adding things like deca. This will probably be my last too. At least for several years.

I am way past 30 reps per body part at this point. Just wrapping up the 10's and they look like this

bench
dips
chins
seated cable rows
military press
curls
skull crushers

squats
calf raises
leg curls
leg extensions

everything in the 10's has been 2 sets of HST the 1-2 drop sets or as close to 15 as I can get using my 15 rep maxes. Yeah I know I should add deads but with my back I am really pushing it with the squats. I do allow myself to hit failure alot more since starting the juice.

Diet is never the same 2 days in a row. There is just no way to eat as much as I have to and have it all be clean. At this point I just go by the scale. I figure I should be gaining 2-3 lbs per week and anything more is likely to be fat.

If you have never crossed over to the dark side it is hard to explain but when I used to lift in the AM, I would feel it for the rest of the day. Now its like I could lift like crazy, hit failure all the time and I feel like doing it again like 5 hours later.
 
The arimidex is killing some of your gains. Estrogen helps with the gains and at .5 ed you are really killing estrogen. You could easily go .5 eod if you are just trying to kill bloat.
 
Been wondering this for a while: If signalling for PS has been triggered during a *normal* HST w/o then why up the volume if taking AAS? Signalling would still occur would it not? Any extra reps and sets would then only be burning more calories. However, I could see the sense in upping the frequency if that was a possibility as this would keep the signalling high more often.

In other words, wouldn't it be better to up the volume over the course of a week by adding w/os rather than just by adding volume each session?

If any of you guys can answer this for me that'd be great.
 
Hey Lol,

Remember the basic principle of HST is to do as MUCH volume as possible, just not too much that it effects frequency.

So volume is a good thing, but not at that cost of frequency.

But as to which is the better of either upping the volume per w/o or simply increasing the number of w/os, I am not sure.

My gut tells me increasing the volume per w/o would be better in this case. That is not a logical conclusion of any kind whatsoever, just my feeling.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Jan. 13 2007,06:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Been wondering this for a while: If signalling for PS has been triggered during a *normal* HST w/o then why up the volume if taking AAS? Signalling would still occur would it not? Any extra reps and sets would then only be burning more calories. However, I could see the sense in upping the frequency if that was a possibility as this would keep the signalling high more often.

In other words, wouldn't it be better to up the volume over the course of a week by adding w/os rather than just by adding volume each session?

If any of you guys can answer this for me that'd be great.</div>
when I run a cycle I will split the routine into two seperate workouts one for upper and one for lower body. This allows me to do more volume per workout since I don't get tired and only give it 3/4 effort near the end. Recovery is definitely quicker while on a cycle. If my cycle is 12 weeks I will do a normal hst then instead of taking a week off, I will reset back to 10's for two weeks then 5's to finish it out.
 
nipponbiki, I appreciate what you're saying. It's what I have read too. Bryan says this in the FAQ:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
2) Increased volume during a cycle: Yes, there is nothing &quot;bad&quot; about high volume. In fact, it is good if your exercise tolerance is high. When on increased androgens your exercise tolerence is higher, and you can train with higher volume, thereby increasing the time that the muscle is actually loaded, without risking overtraining (within reason).</div>

I understand that loading and frequency have to be balanced to allow for recovery but, with AAS, recovery should be improved which would allow for more frequent loading through greater frequency. I just don't understand why more work would be required each w/o once signalling has been triggered? I just would have thought keeping signalling high more often would be a better option?

Guys at my local gym who are on AAS tend to work out four or more times a week and, as there will be quite a bit of cross-over between exercises for the upper-body at least, that'll mean that muscle groups like arms will likely get worked at least four times over the course of the week (during chest work, during back work, during shoulder work and during arm work!).

As we do whole body w/os with HST I would have thought that upping the frequency would be possible without interfering with recovery and therefore be the best way to maximise potential gains if on AAS. I want to know why this would be the wrong (or a less effective) approach compared to just adding sets and reps.
 
Lol,

Yeah, I understand what you are asking. It's a good question.

Just for reference, I am not taking any supplements other than creatine and fish oil. I ran a cycle of doing AM/PM splits (which was just ur standard A/B routine, just done in one day instead of on different days) 3 times a week + 1 day of an AM/PM split for cardio + 1 day of just one cardio session.

Recovery was never a problem for me. In fact, because of the AM/PM split, I was NEVER sore. Now that I am back to a standard A/B routine, I get sore again, but not too sore like with failure training.

It also produced great results. It was a cut cycle, I went from 15% to 9% in 2 months and gained about 5kg of lean mass (partially due to muscle memory though).

I did try changing it to an A/B everyday, and that really hurt my recovery. With the AM/PM, I would do either squat or deads in the AM and no major leg compound in the evening. But when I changed to everyday, I was doing squat or deads everyday, so maybe that was the reason.
 
Found some good quotes from Bryan which help answer my question. Thought I'd post them again here in case anyone else is interested:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">*For hypertrophy, it is more a function of time under load. So, because the signal for hypertorphy is not simply &quot;on&quot; or &quot;off&quot;, the duration that the signal is &quot;tripped&quot; the more robust the signal and subsequent adaptation. However, this is only up to a point. An example of diminishing returns from research demonstrated that you will gain 50% of the total hypertorphy from 8 hours of loading within the first 30 minutes.

*Another option, besides simply moving really slow to get more time under tension (A.K.A. time under load or TUL), is to keep the tempo “normal” and the set length “normal” and to add more sets. This appears to be a superior choice for those who are more interested in significant muscle hypertrophy as opposed to only increasing muscular “fitness”. Once again there are going to be compromises though. If you do too many sets per muscle group per workout you increase the time required to regain your baseline voluntary strength. In other words, if you do too much and then try to train again too soon, you will actually be weaker the next workout. There is also the issue of inflammation, which can lead to overuse injuries.

So, with a goal of gaining shear muscle size, HST advocates that you start with the “minimums” and then increase things as you are able. Use the minimum effective load, the minimum effective number of exercises, and the minimum effective volume. The reason we use these minimums is to ensure the maximum effective frequency. The reason we strive for the maximum frequency of loading is to approximate the effects of mechanical overload protocols used in the research that produce incredible rates of muscular hypertrophy.

*having the liberty to train twice per day, and/or everyday opens up the possibility to significantly increase training volume.

As long as a &quot;highly conditioned&quot; person stays within his/her limits of exercise tolerance, doing more generally means better gains. I don't mean more fatigue, I mean more reps with a given load... Sounds like one in the same but it isn't really. To understand, consider the &quot;effort&quot; (A.K.A. CNS activation) it requires to do the 1st as compared to the last rep of your 10 rep max. The tension produced on the tissue doesn't change from the 1st rep to the last. The only thing that changes is the amount of CNS activiation required to contract the muscle under load.

So, more reps doesn't necessarily mean more fatigue IF you can get enough rest inbetween sets. To get more and more rest, simply do 2 workouts spread out by several hours. Hence, the value of training twice per day.

Another advantage is being able to do more volume per bodypart during one session. You can split the body up into 2 halves and train half in the AM and the other half in the PM. This essentially allows you to double the amount of volume per session per bodypart.

My comments about training twice per day, 3 times per week as optimal stem from the ability to increase the volume per bodypart, and still having edequate rest inbetween training sessions (M,W,F).

*I know this doesn't contribute much to the thread, but its important to keep in mind that the relationships between load and volume are not static. For example, given sufficient load, adding more volume after gains have stopped is a legitamate strategy. Like wise, given sufficient volume, simply increasing the load is an obvious solution to stagnation.</div>
 
8 hours of loading!!! damn I wouldn't like to have been in that research trial.

Bryan's argument also lends weight (no pun intended) to Maxstim's argument about fatigue management, doing a large volume with a heavy weight, while using rest periods to minimise fatigue. Stretching out workouts is an interesting idea for me, since I work in a gym. But not very practical for most people to spend 2 hours in the gym (quad would your wife let you spend 2 hours in your home gym?
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Yes, because a.) She loves the beef and b.) I spend quality time with her and c.) I may have a low libido, but what I do, I do very very very well, heheh.
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(Spyke @ Jan. 12 2007,05:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Cycle is 400mg per week of test cyp and .5 mg arimidex every day.</div>
Even though this is your first ever ASS cycle, 400mgs/week of Cyp is low. 500mgs/week would be the absolute minimum. 600 even better. Especially since you are using a-dex. Sorry, but 400mg/week is a pansy cycle! (speaking from science, not machismo)
 
I'm no expert by any means, but seems to me, he's walking around JACKED, feeling like a million bucks, recovering even before the day is out...just my opinion, but it sounds like he's right where he should be, no?

I'd be ecstatic to feel like that, and I know my workouts would be even better than the hardgrind I put myself through as it is; therefore more growth.
Magnum said he'd been using too much arimidex.
 
Lol, I believe you answered your own questions better than anyone with those quotes. It is my understanding, too, that when it comes to signalling, it is more than a &quot;on-off&quot; thing. I believe the more you do, the better, as long as it doesn't interfere with your frequency.

As I understand it, Bryan's suggestion about more volume while on AAS goes somewhat like this: Once you have optimized frequency, take advantage of your increased recovery potential (due to AAS) by adding more volume, which will in turn result to better hypertrophy. The key here is that AAS will allow you to do this WITHOUT (hopefully) compromising your (already optimal) frequency.

Regards,
Dimitris
 
I prefer to think of HST as doing the minimum amount of work necessary as frequently as possible to get the maximum gains.
 
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