Alternating or Consistency

C

cwrigh5

New Member
So first off let me explain myself. I'm an intermediate lifter, been lifting weights for 6 years now, and Ive tired various routines from the upper lower spilt to basic spot training. When it was time for my week off I decided to give HST a try. After reading for awhile and posting up some questions I pretty much got a good idea of what Im going to do. But I am still confused if I should alternate the lifts I do or stick with a set group of lifts.

I understand both arguments. People who support doing the same routine 3 times a week for the entire cycle preach that hitting the same muscle with the same lifts will stimulate more growth and overall strength. But I see the point of people supporting alternating lifts. That by working the same muscle with a different lift, such as squats MF and deads or SLDL Wed, you hit a different angle of the muscle resulting in an overall balance of muscle growth.

So After all that, Which one is the best? Which routine will yield greater in size and strength? Will the same routine each workout day produced a disproportional body?

Right now I like the idea of doing the same routine, but I have a time restraint and Im afraid that once I get into 3x5 it will take longer than my 1 hour time limit.

I would really appreciate the help. thanks everybody
 
I don't think you can simply say one is better than the other, really depends on personal preference.

I like to hit the back with rows and chins/pull ups with different grips, I like to hit the chest and shoulders with different types of flat, incline and overhead pressing. I like to train the triceps and biceps with exercises that provide a stretch (incline curls/extensions) and consistent resistance (press downs/cable curls). Hammies I like one exercise where the movement is at the hip and one where the movement is at the knee. Quads - I like doing squats and leg presses. On top of all this I like deadlifts.

I can't fit all of this into one session so alternating is a must!!

Incidentally I believe the argument in favour of not alternating involves neural learning and ease of measuring progression more than simply 'it will stimulate more growth'.

Cheers

Rob
 
So basically its completely personal preference.

Could anyone share with me some of the gains they've seen with both variations to the routine?

Thanks
 
Just to warn you if say you had 10 people reply to you and 5 alternated and 5 didn't...well the difference between them in gains is going to come down to:

nutrition
training frequency
training loads
genetics
conditioning to resistance training
weight
bodyfat percentage

and probably a whole lof of other things, it won't tell you much about whether alternating is better or not, although obviously if people chime in with their opinions that might help.
I would just decide what exercises you want to use...if it's ony a couple of pressing movements, a couple of rowing/pull up movements and a couple of leg movements (arms optional) then don't alternate, if it's more do alternate.

Cheers

Rob
 
I agree with Rob.

I would have thought that for anyone who has reached the intermediate stage in their lifting 'career' the most important thing is to still make steady progress. HST and diet should allow for that but there are many, many variables that come into play when trying to compare one type of workout to another, as Rob pointed out (and three are more besides).

I find that I have many exercises that I like to do that I can't do justice to in one session. Alternating is a way round this. One of the most important factors (as far as your w/o goes) is to ensure you are hitting the big compounds regularly enough and with enough load and volume to keep signalling high.

I'd like to ba able to do deads and squats in the same workout right through my cycle, as I make my best gains with these two exercises alone. However, my lower back just can't take it during 5s. Well, that's not strictly true - if I had nothing else to do I could do it, but if I want to be able to function normally the rest of the week I need to alternate. Couldn't even do the washing up one cycle when I tried doing both! Didn't go down well.
laugh.gif
 
Another thing is that you have to lift higher loads every training so if you dont alternate you need to go up 6 levels of loads on each RM, which is impossible. But if you alernate you need only go 3 levels up on each RM.
 
It's too early for me to give a definitive response but I'll jump in here anyway regarding my experience thus far. I'm in my first cycle (just finished the 10s), and so far so good. Even after these first 4 weeks, I have noticed slight improvements. I have to say that I have high hopes for HST, as I have been stagnant in size and strength for about a year. I'm planning on giving a report on my experience after I'm finished with the cycle. Yes, I know - you'll alert the media
wink.gif
.

As to your question - I've always alternated exercises, but primarily for the sake of preventing boredom. I would agree that it probably is better for overall development, but whether that's true or not is definitely a matter of personal preference. That having been said, for this first HST cycle I'm doing the SAME exercises throughout. My plan is then to perform a new set of exercises for the same muscle groups during my second cycle. After that second cycle, I hope to then have a better idea of whether or not to alternate exercises during any given cycle, or to repeat the same ones and change them only after the SD.

I suppose the best way to explain my theory is simply to say that my gut tells me I'll see better gains by doing the same exercises for at least one complete cycle. It seems to be a good way to judge whether or not something is working. Also, I'd go crazy sticking with the exact same exercises for any longer than two months, so I think changing them from cycle to cycle will provide variety and at the same time give me a more accurate sense of what is working and what isn't. At this point, I can't be sure what's giving me the signs of early progress - the HST itself or the fact that I'm augmenting the HST by performing the same exercizes in this first cycle. I'll know more once I get further into my little project.

Wow. My 2 cents just grew to a dollar. Talk about inflation. Sorry for the long post, but like the rest of you, I'm kind of pumped about HST (pun intended).

Good luck, and please keep us posted on your progress.
 
<div>
(Avi1985 @ Feb. 03 2007,15:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Another thing is that you have to lift higher loads every training so if you dont alternate you need to go up 6 levels of loads on each RM, which is impossible. But if you alernate you need only go 3 levels up on each RM.</div>
That's not true, you simply progress the load by twice as much if you're alternating. If it's not possible to increase the load by a small enough amount to manage 6 increments then you simply repeat weights.
 
<div>
(Avi1985 @ Feb. 03 2007,16:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You right. But its better to increase weights every 1-2 workouts, than every 2-3.</div>
well as long as it's every 2 workouts then that's ok!
 
I have always increased the loads every workout unless I failed a completion in the last one.

But you do what you can, that's what's important.
And no sniveling.
 
I prefer alternating because it staves off boredom.

I also still believe that variety is better for hypertrophy. I can't prove it but it 'intuitively' feels better. Plus, since I do 15, 12, 8 and 5 reps every week, as opposed to 2 weeks of 15's, etc., it is easier to fit into my routine.

If I were looking to just increase my max in a certain lift, however, I probably would not alternate as you are training your CNS more than for hypertrophy. repetition is good for the CNS.

Anyway, I don't think either way will make that much of a difference in your gains over time so I would recommend you do what feels best and fits into your schedule.
 
I alternate between two full body workouts and increase the weights each and everyworkout for all movements. I workout 5-6 days per week. This works well for me and I seem to be able to handle the loads and volume involved with this program.

I like the variation in movements and the increase in weights each workout is the main principle with HST.

I have had great success with HST and after two or more years of using it have tweaked it to suit me and my goals.
 
<div>
(Avi1985 @ Feb. 03 2007,11:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You right. But its better to increase weights every 1-2 workouts, than every 2-3.</div>
That's not necessarily true. Especially in the 5s, you can use the same load for a while before it becomes ineffective. I prefer using the same load for an entire week before incrementing upward in the 5s, in order to prolong the 5s for much longer.
Remember, the principle is &quot;Progressive Load&quot; which simply means increasing the load you use over time. It is not &quot;increase the load every workout&quot; or &quot;increase the load every x days.&quot;


Alternating vs. not alternating - it won't make a difference either way. If you workout correctly and eat enough food, you will make gains regardless. And in the end, you can only gain so much muscle over a cycle, alternating or not alternating is not really going to change how much overall muscle you can put on during a cycle.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Feb. 03 2007,17:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I prefer using the same load for an entire week before incrementing upward in the 5s, in order to prolong the 5s for much longer.
Remember, the principle is &quot;Progressive Load&quot; which simply means increasing the load you use over time.  It is not &quot;increase the load every workout&quot; or &quot;increase the load every x days.&quot;


Alternating vs. not alternating - it won't make a difference either way.  If you workout correctly and eat enough food, you will make gains regardless.  And in the end, you can only gain so much muscle over a cycle, alternating or not alternating is not really going to change how much overall muscle you can put on during a cycle.</div>
I agree with you Tot, but I think as for progression, it has to be personalized. If I didn't up the weight every workout, I'd barely get anywhere. How many guys have you seen at gyms that didn't progress their loads and didn't make gains?
On the other hand, some guys simply cannot progress at that rate. I just couldn't imagine doing one weight all week long.
 
<div>
(Old and Grey @ Feb. 03 2007,15:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I prefer alternating because it staves off boredom.

I also still believe that variety is better for hypertrophy. I can't prove it but it 'intuitively' feels better. Plus, since I do 15, 12, 8 and 5 reps every week, as opposed to 2 weeks of 15's, etc., it is easier to fit into my routine.

If I were looking to just increase my max in a certain lift, however, I probably would not alternate as you are training your CNS more than for hypertrophy. repetition is good for the CNS.

Anyway, I don't think either way will make that much of a difference in your gains over time so I would recommend you do what feels best and fits into your schedule.</div>
I concur.
 
You right. But its better to increase weights every 1-2 workouts, than every 2-3.

where did you hear this because as far as i know there are no studies that state how long RBE lasts,i think it lasts a lot longer than we think.
 
Yeah, the number that has been thrown around a lot is about 2 weeks when you are in the heavier loads. Imagine only incrementing once every two weeks... you could drag your cycle out for months. Heh. But that's why I stick to one week for each weight during the 5s - it seems like a good middle ground and allows me to prolong my progress for much longer than a mere 8 week cycle.
 
Tot, have you ever tried going to a 10x3 after the fives? I'm still thinking of trying that. Seems to me that you'd be using a heavier weight, or similar, but would be able to shorten the rest times and still move the same total poundage. DrPierre got me to thinking on this, and it looks good as a finisher to me. Sort of like a Max-Stim variation.
 
There's not a chance that I could do 10 x 3 with my top loads for 5s, certainly not for deads anyway. I find that I have to cluster just to get my 15 to 20 reps. Once I am at my 5RM load for deads I tend to do just one set of 5 reps and then cluster another 5 or 6 reps with that load.

I could certainly try 3 x 10 at the loads I am using at the start of 5s but I certainly wouldn't want to try it with my 3RM loads. Just don't think it would even be possible unless I took inordinately long rest periods between sets. I would be much more worried about injury potential too.

For me, clustering to get my required rep count (or doing Max Stim reps) seems the best way to keep fatigue at bay.
 
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