AM/PM split/advice

S

smunky

New Member
After a year plus of barely having time to do a 3x a week workout, I've finally got the time/organization to start a serious am/pm split. I ask if this seems ok, and would welcolme input on questions that follow:

AM
Deadlifts
leg curl
Neutral grip Pullups
Dips
Seated Wide Grip rows
Incline DB Bench press
Lateral Raises
Calf Raises

PM
Squats
SLDL
Wide Grip Pulldowns
Incline BB bench press
Bent Over Barbell Row
Incline dumbell Press
Lateral Raises
Calf Raise

I do 2 sets per exercise. I'm wondering if I've set myself to do too much per workout?

I want to improve my shoulders so do I need to do more for my shoulders? Such as a lying lateral raise? (I have the shoulders of an emaciated five year old
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)

Also, for my chest and back, would it be better to just do dips and pullups for both workouts instead of alternating between the bench/dips, pullups/pulldowns?

Lastly, my back hates me...I've recently developed some lower back issues (part from neglect of working it out, but also a really bad bed, etc.) I read that Bryan advises not doing SLDL, squats, and deadlifts all in the same week (especially during 5's). So, should I alter my plan? I want to build up my lower back strength, but it's not happy with me right now, and it needs a lot of work. What would be an alternative exercise instead of deadlifts? (Which is the primary "my back hates me" exercise).

Thanks in advance for any advice given!
 
Smunky

Looks good.

2 questions:

Why repeat incline bench and lateral raises.

Personally IMO, I would use a diffrent benching exercise and for shoulders I would too (bent over raises or military press)

Otherwise looks good, simple enough, but with right nutrition and rest, should get you amazing results.
 
thnx 4 the reply fausto!

Any advice on the back exercises/less stressful one? Otherwise, I'll just be scaling back the amount of the load on the deadlifts and such...
 
I would omit the leg curl in the am, the deadlift will be more than enough work for your hamstrings, if you feel necessary to do an isolation I think leg extension is a better choice.  Possibly a better time to do them(the leg curl) is in the pm after your squats.  Also, Im confused if
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Incline DB Bench press
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and
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Incline dumbell Press
Click to expand...
are the same exericse.  If they are I dont think that it is necessary to do barbell inclines and dumbell inclines in the same workout in the pm.  In addition, I would probably do the barbell in the am and dumbells in the pm, because the barbell will take a lot more out of you in terms of energy and focus-so you might want to do them when you are more fresh.  Also, I don't know if you realize that you have no curling exercises in the routine, I realize that is a popular trend on the forum, however, I personally would advise against that if larger biceps is what you desire.
thehamma
 
thnx for the input hamma!

Well, I just caught the mistake: I meant BARBELL incline press...pfft!

I figure I might add something along the lines of a military press then in the am and do laterals in the pm.

Also, I was under the impression compound exercises are the best thing? I mean, I have a lot of compound things going on here, so do I really need a curl exercise for biceps?

Oh, and u bring up a good question for me: would it be more optimal to do certain exercises in the am split rather than the pm? In terms of fatigue at the end of the day I mean, which one will tire me out more and require me to be fresher, etc.

Thanks again for replies!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Also, I was under the impression compound exercises are the best thing? I mean, I have a lot of compound things going on here, so do I really need a curl exercise for biceps?
Click to expand...
Try it out, you might not need any curling exercises especially if you are doing heavy chins with your palms facing you. But my personal experiences have been that doing curling movements helps my biceps grow at a faster rate.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Oh, and u bring up a good question for me: would it be more optimal to do certain exercises in the am split rather than the pm? In terms of fatigue at the end of the day I mean, which one will tire me out more and require me to be fresher, etc.
Click to expand...
Well, my advise would be to try and spread out the amount of work in both workouts, which on the whole you basically have done. But I would be interested to hear some of what the others have to say about that last point.

thehamma
 
smunky

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Any advice on the back exercises/less stressful one?
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried real heavy one arm bent over rows with one leg on bench? They are somewhat less stressful on th elower back, but BB bent over rows are the ####, they really hit the back.

Another alternative is T-bar rows, but they would alos stress the back somewhat, maybe you should try to kinda let the body rest on the thighs (not quite literally but to an extent), it helps take stress of the lower back.

I use a back strap whenver I do squats/ rows/etc, it helps reduce the stress quite a bit.

If you don't come right, keep asking I am sure we will find you something.

Have you ever tried: exrx
you may find something useful.
 
thanks for the suggestions!

I am worried now that perhaps I have a herniated disk, or compressed vertebrae or something stupid that I did to myself...so I need to find out from a doctor, (that post in the forum got me scared!)

But still, thnx for the tips!
 
Smunky

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]perhaps I have a herniated disk
Click to expand...

Although it is good to always check things out, I doubt it! I have difficulty with my lower back specially when I do ATG squats, deadlifts, the full kind I had to drop because they really got my back screaming for days on end, and...it is not a hernyated disk.

Anyway this too is by feel as our back structures differ widely so you should just try to avoid those exercises that most hurt your back.

The other end of the tunnel is to try and strengthen the lower back, sue good mornings/hyperextensions/SLDL etc and it may help to stop the pain.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The other end of the tunnel is to try and strengthen the lower back, sue good mornings/hyperextensions/SLDL etc and it may help to stop the pain.
Click to expand...

Yeah, strengthening the lower back definitely helps with heavy exercises like squats and deadlifts. I've heard others say so, plus my own experience. Maybe you can spend some time strengthening your lower back with "light" exercises like hyperextensions before trying heavy squats. In other words, you can use lower back isolation exercises at first to build some strength/resistance, and then move on to compounds. It helps, after that squats feel much less stressful on your back.
 
I've been pondering that as well, namely, the lightweight lower back exercises.

I can think of hyperextensions, and the lower back machine with very little resistance, but other than that, what would constitute an exercise for that area? (namely, the core trunk workers).

I had planned to start my next cycle next week, but my schedule with my doctor won't come until next tuesday, so it may be a bit of conflict. Is it possible to add these exercises into my HST program I have laid out and would they follow the same principles of 15/10/5 rep weeks?

Or would I just do like 15-30 reps of the lightweight exercises at the end of my workouts regardless? That's my primary question.

Thanks again for all the replies!
 
I am on my second 2x day MWF cycle and I had to drop the exercises down to only 5 per W/O to be able to continue lifting heavier.  If I have the energy left I will do one set of incline DB curls and an overhead DB triceps extension. You are doing 8 exercises, that'll be pretty tough once you are squatting and deadlifting over 350. i would also not do the SLDL.  I do:

A: squats, incline bench, bent rows, DB military press and shrugs
B: deadlift, dips, chins, DB military press and shrugs.

I think a little more volume with the compounds is better for strength and size gains.
 
ha, I think u VASTLY overestimate my strength
tounge.gif
I won't say how much (or how LITTLE) i can lift...but I appreciate the comments and advice anyways
laugh.gif


I bow to all those who lift an assload more than me (um, that's prolly everyone on this site!)
worship.gif
 
Stick with HST, do the compounds, eat enough and you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much stronger you'll be in a year. Hit that deadlift HARD.
 
After a lot of thought, advice, and searching, etc, I've revamped the program I listed earlier. I see the chiropractor on tuesday (JUST in case, because my back hasn't liked me in over half a year), and will be starting a program this week hopefully, after I get the ok. (talk about an extended SD! Safety first!)

This is what I plan to do for an AM/PM split as of this week:

AM
Squats (only 15's)
Leg Press (starting in 10's - haven't done 4 LONGEST time)
SLDL (only 15's)
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
BB incline bench
Seated Wide grip cable row
DB lateral raises
Calf Raise

PM
Deadlift (ONLY for the 15's)
Leg ext (starting in 10's)
Leg Curl
Close grip chins
Chest Dip
Incline DB press (1 set only)
DB lateral raises
Lying DB rear delt raises (1 set)
Incline DB curl (1 set)
calf raise

I want those 1 set isos, altho I know compounds are the recommended on these boards. DB press and Lateral raises may be repetitive, but I wanted to work my shoulders and did not want to do military press due to back stress. Is decline bench a good alternative to the incline press?

Just doing the 15's of the exercises that stress lower back: good idea? Ideally, I'd like to get back to using those exercises (deadlifts, squats, SLDL) in my full workout, but right now, my back just can't take it. I'm going to be doing a core trunk workout on off days 2x a week to make sure I can build up that area so that hopefully it'll be better within a cycle. I plan to do crunches, twist machine, hyperextensions, back lever machine, and bent over BB rows with just the bar, as well as a good stretching session. I don't plan to increase the weight on them from the first workout, and want to do 15 rep sets, again, just as core stabilizing workouts. Is this advisable or should there be weight increase?

Input always appreciated! :D
 
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