Are you experiencing Gains with HST?

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by matty19, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. matty19

    matty19 New Member

    about to start first cycle and wanted to know how sucsessful the program has been to others.
     
  2. SweetDaddyPatty

    SweetDaddyPatty New Member

    I haven't gained a ton of pounds but I have gotten stronger and look better with my shirt off... I am happier with the results of HST than any other program I have ever done. been lifting on and off forabout 10 years but never stuck with it long enough to see results until a little over a year ago. By July or so my progress had stalled. Eventually found HST and am almost done with my second cycle and plan to keep doing it "forever." The structured workout schedule and visible results in strength and muscularity have been great motivators.
     
  3. magnumfreak

    magnumfreak New Member

    hst seems to work really well with my body. I definitely can see the difference in the mirror and my strength gains have been phenominal. To me, it provides the best combination of high rep, medium rep and low rep workouts into one package.

    Your results may vary.... Profesional drivers on a closed course...

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
     
  4. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I couldn't answer the poll...HST slowed for me after about 8 cycles...so It's time for periodization I think...I'm on the 5x5 madcow (similar in ways to HST) for a cycle or two and will return to HST again and again.
    It simply works, but nothing works forever. There is a period. Then there is another. The thing that seems to be working for some of you guys is hitting the strength-specific stuff as an alternate to hypertrophy-specific. It just makes sense to me. But why get off the horse when he's still running?
    My horsie stopped for a drink or something. [​IMG]
     
  5. vagrant

    vagrant New Member

    Using HST, I put on 30lbs over the summer. So I'd call it a good, successful program.

    My goals have changed somewhat and am not doing the "bodybuilder" thing of going for size right now so I too am doing a 5x5 program, a slightly older, less advanced version of what quadancer is doing; going for simple strength gains without size being a priority.

    In the not so distant future, I will be returning to HST. No question about that. It does work very well. As soon as I'm able to carry quadancer's horse across the river (not too far off). [​IMG]
     
  6. I started lifting almost a year ago. I had no idea what I was doing. I had read that full body workouts are good for "beginners" so that is what I was doing. I had a 100 lb Sears weight set.

    A guy on another message board turned me on to HST, and I did my first cycle last Spring. I'm now finishing my fourth cycle. I have gained size in all my cycles. One was a little crappy, but I was schizophrenic about wanting to cut one week, bulk the next .. couldn't get my head out of my butt about my diet. Needless to say, I didn't gain much that cycle until the very end.

    I can imagine people criticizing my experience with HST. They could say, "You had newbie gains that first year. Any program would have given you that."

    But critics will say anything to bash HST. Here's a common one: An experienced lifter will switch to HST and make gains, and a critic will say, "Yeah, but all your real size was gained before HST."

    So I'm just doing HST, from newbie until I reach the level of "experienced lifter" and we'll see how good it is!
     
  7. vagrant

    vagrant New Member

    <div>
    (etothepii @ Dec. 30 2006,09:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So I'm just doing HST, from newbie until I reach the level of &quot;experienced lifter&quot; and we'll see how good it is!</div>
    Your gains are what brought me to HST in the first place. Newbie gains, experienced gains...whatever, who cares, they are still gains.

    Yeah, one can grow on anything when they first start out. But after 3 years of serious training with almost no growth HST showed me what CAN happen with serious training and a serious diet.

    While looking through the pics on another forum, I won't tell you what my wife said, damn sure won't tell you what my daughter said, and already told you what my 20 year old friend who I was training said (the one that wants you to be her math tutor). Yep, it was enough to get me to train with HST.
     
  8. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Did you read the Results thread?
     
  9. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Dec. 30 2006,15:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Did you read the Results thread?</div>
    Thats what I was thinking [​IMG] .
     
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Seriously. No offense, but this has to be the nine hundredth time somene has posted a poll or a thread asking everyone to tell what their gains are, etc, when they could just check the results thread.
     
  11. Cova

    Cova New Member

    I am getting thicker with muscle but it isn't a significant amount. I am almost certain it is due to workout limitations.
     
  12. bgates1654

    bgates1654 New Member

    I gained about 15lbs of LBM on my first cycle, but I also gained about the same or maybe a bit more in fat becuase I was eating everything I could stuff in my belly. After having to go through 2 cycles of cutting the fat off, I got serious about my nutrition and started counting calories. I am just starting 5s now and I have gained about 4lbs LBM with very little fat (about 0.1-0.2% BF increase). The difference is already noticeable.
     
  13. Joe.Muscle

    Joe.Muscle Active Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Dec. 31 2006,12:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Seriously.  No offense, but this has to be the nine hundredth time somene has posted a poll or a thread asking everyone to tell what their gains are, etc, when they could just check the results thread.</div>
    Once again,

    I second that.
     
  14. need2eat

    need2eat New Member

    HST has improved my strength more than anything.

    Hit a wall the second cycle.

    Just make a point to completely change your exercises each cycle and I think you will be much happier, Im having difficulty following my own advice, as Im hung up on pushing my personal records and Im paying for it, with frustration. [​IMG]
     
  15. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    I see no reason to change exercises each cycle. If you are gaining strength but not gaining muscle, the problem is diet. Either that or the exercise isn't targeting the muscle properly.
     
  16. need2eat

    need2eat New Member

    Who said anything about a problem, everyone reaches their limitations, besides, its a good idea to approach the muscle(s) from different angles anyway, which can only be done, via different exercises?   [​IMG] From a psychological standpoint, its a good idea.

    If you believe the HST principles to be good, then the easiest variable to change would be exercise performed...for the newer HST enthusiast of course...haha
     
  17. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    WHERE did you get that, need? You're talking about 'muscle confusion' I believe...we have a thread on that here; it's bull. What SF is saying is you should give a good run of training (which is consistently exersizing) until you plateau. It took me about 8 cycles to slow down gains, and I'm 53. You should be growing like a weed, bro. I just switched to the 5x5 (because it was TIME to) and my strengths are rocketing! For now.
    Believe me, you haven't hit your limits yet, unless you're cutting, in which you would have to drop the weights a bit; but you're talking about growth, so surely you're seeking an anabolic state.
    And what is the most anabolic substance around? Food. The gyms are full of skinny guys who don't eat and swap routines like socks.
     
  18. need2eat

    need2eat New Member

    I wasnt saying muscle confusion, more in terms of the psychological standpoint.

    I will use you as example 1

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> I just switched to the 5x5 (because it was TIME to) and my strengths are rocketing! For now.</div>

    I bet your performing the same damn exercises now, you were performing with HST, so what changed? So please explain to me, how is changing your workout routine to 5X5, while maintaining the same exercises any better than maintaining an HST routine while performing different exercises?

    It just makes more sense to approach the muscle from different angles, has jack crap to do with confusion, each exercise affects the muscles differently. It only makes sense to incorporate different movements to gain full development of the muscle. Not only does this improve development, it keeps the person performing the exercises more enthusiastic, guarantee all variables being equal, a happy person would gain more muscle than an unhappy one. The human body works as a unit.


    If a person is so inclined to believe HST has good principles, then in my mind, it only makes sense to change the exercises performed and follow HST, than go to another program and maintain the same exercises. I understand 5X5 is a close cousin but its still not HST.

    8 week cycle, which is an HST cycle, would IMO be a great point in time to switch exercises to keep things fresh. Maintain HST principles, maintain morale, target the muscle(s) differently, improve development, how can that be a bad thing?



    How do you know how old I am? My genetic limitations, what I may or may not eat?
     
  19. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    But anyway, it's still pretty much impossible to be eating enough, gaining strength and not gaining muscle. If you are eating enough and gaining strength, you are going to gain muscle. It's not probable to gain significant strength but not size, because it is not very probably that you can gain significant strength unless you are on a calorie surplus... and if you are on a calorie surplus AND gaining strength, then you must be gaining muscle... etc etc etc.
     
  20. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    From the HST FAQ, quoting the founder of HST, -Bryan Haycock (a man who knows his stuff!!!): <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Should I vary exercises?

    Should a person “switch” exercises frequently? Well, that depends. If she is going from an exercise that doesn’t stretch the muscle significantly, to an exercise that does, then Yes. You will benefit from switching, but only after the muscle has “adapted” to the exercise with less stretch involved.

    Switching exercises that require a high degree of neural skill (most compound exercises) is generally less productive. The hypertrophic response is delayed according to the duration of learning to manifest the neural drive necessary to generate the tension on the muscle fibers for microtrauma to happen. This is generally not a concern with isolation exercises.

    As to the value of Weider’s Confusion principle (sorry couldn’t resist), lets consider what we know both about strength, and the physical properties of muscle tissue.

    The foundation for the development of strength is neuromuscular in nature. Increases in strength from resistance exercise have been attributed to several neural adaptations including altered recruitment patterns, rate coding, motor unit synchronization, reflex potentiation, prime-mover antagonist activity, and prime-mover agonist activity. Aside from incremental changes in the number of contractile filaments, voluntary force production is largely a matter of &quot;activating&quot; motor units. In order to ascertain the relative contribution of each of these mechanisms, various measurement techniques have been utilized. We can go into this if you wish, but it is largely just an exercise in motor-unit physiology with little applicable value to muscle hypertrophy.

    One study might be worth mentioning though. Hakkinen and co-workers have shown that there is an increase in EMG activity with strength training as well as a decrease in EMG activity upon cessation of training (Hakkinen,1983). Male subjects accustomed to weight training went through progressive strength training of combined concentric and eccentric contractions three times per week for 16 wk. The active training period was followed by an 8 week detraining period (not to be confused with SD). The training program consisted mainly of leg extensions with the loads of 80-120% of one maximum concentric repetition (1RM). Significant improvements in muscle function were observed in early conditioning; however, the increase in maximal force during the very late training period was greatly limited. Marked improvements in muscle strength were accompanied by significant increases in the neural activation (EMG) of the quads.

    And as you might expect, during detraining, there was a rapid decline in EMG activity patterns.

    Now here is something interesting and illustrative at the same time. The relationship between EMG activity and high voluntary forces varied during the training period. The occurrence of these changes varied during the entire course of training. This points out the fact that other neurological factors are involved such as rate coding, motor unit synchronization, reflex potentiation, prime-mover antagonist activity, and prime-mover agonist activity.

    Now with respect to the question of changing exercises every 2 weeks or so, you have to ask yourself why? Keep in mind that there are entire textbooks devoted to the field of “motor learning”. It is a very complicated field of study because it involves the whole organism or being. It involves the brain to a much greater extent than the muscle tissue. This of course makes it NOT hypertrophy-specific. Anyway, people are used to asking the question why, they just aren’t accustomed to having to answer it without simply deferring to some widely accepted authoritative source, or simply saying “it makes it harder”. “Harder” is a subjective term related to another subjective term “intensity”. Intensity is only important as it defines the amount of tension applied to the muscle, not how heavy it feels that day or how hard it is to lift when you are really tired.</div>
     

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