avg natural potential

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (liegelord @ Sep. 21 2005,7:41)]"There is a clear cut difference. You cannot attribute modern bb'ers much larger size to 'modern training techniques' or better diets. It is obviously the drugs."
Yes there are obvious differences, however, you neglect other factors such as the esthetics of the day, the fact most were involved in weight class athletics and despite being very strong, even by modern standards, they did not have the scientific knowledge of things like RBE.

thats because knowing about the RBE is not hte limiting factor in hypertrophy

Quote[/b] ]"No matter how hard you train or how much you eat, eventually you will no longer be able to put on more muscle mass naturally without carrying around a significant amount of fat along with it."
Yes for some, but the extra fat can be dieted off slowly.

I dont know if your kidding or what

Quote[/b] ]"These folks have to run cycles regularly to keep all that extra mass."
The reason is more likely because they used steroids to attain the mass. Had they done so naturally, then proper exercise and diet would maintain.

? you must be kidding.

Quote[/b] ]"And I still say there is no way a guy can walk around at 5'9, 240 lbs and only 8% bodyfat naturally."
If someone has the genetic potential, then I believe with HST principals, someone can. I just don't believe that when the genes say "18 inch arms" that with steroids you can go to 20. When the gene's say 18 inches there's probably no natural/steroid distinction.

your kidding right?

Have you actually found these mythical 240lb 5'9" non using people?

 

[Jester]

Aaron F - if you dieted down, wouldn't you be one the the mythical 5'9 240 lean pounders...? Or at least close...?

 

[Aaron_F]

no, I would be larger than the chart tells me, but I wouldnt be 240.

I want to be 240 and moderately lean, but that aint competition lean

 

[Totentanz]

The only way a steroid user or someone with similar amounts of lean body mass can diet down without losing loads of lean mass is to use steroids when dieting down.

And like Joe G said, there is no way that Ronnie Colemen, for instance, or even Jay Cutler or any of the other big guys in bodybuilding could ever attain those proportions naturally, no matter what they did.

 

[spikehead]

In this debate about genetic potential and steroid use, it sounds like there's some confusion as to what exactly steroids do to cells in the body. I think people are forgetting that steroids are drugs and not just another nutrient. They work as hormones that enter the nucleus of cells and control the transcription of genes. They alter the biology of the cell, unlike nutrients, which only supply the building blocks and energy for cell maintenance and growth. Steroid use therefore allows you to grow beyond your pre-steroid genetic potential because it changes the expression of your genes. You may not have reached your genetic potential before steroid use so steroids would help you get to that point faster but you wouldn't stop growing once you reached that hypothetical point. There may also be another threshold for growth for the steroid user beyond the so-called genetic potential but I wouldn't use the term genetic potential to talk about it.

 

[Joe G]

Ok thats the end of the steroid debate...I think its bizare that it even went that far to begin with.

Aaron,

You believe that the chart downplays how much LBM you can put on right? For the most part when reading these posts I would agree with you. Do you think that the chart could possibly over shoot genetic potential.

I just took my measurements today...I have 8.5 inch wrists and 11 inch ankes and I am 5'11'' (171 inches)

This is what the calculater spat out. Im wondering if that is possible, I am 190 lbs. now with 15 inch arms and it seems like these numbers are light years away.

Predicted Maximum Stats at 8% Bodyfat
Lean body weight: 242
Chest Size (inches):55
Upper Arms Size (inches):19.2
Forearms Size (inches): 15.4
Neck Size (inches):18.97
Thighs Size (inches):29.2
Calfs Size (inches): 19.7

Joe G

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (spikehead @ Sep. 22 2005,7:57)]In this debate about genetic potential and steroid use, it sounds like there's some confusion as to what exactly steroids do to cells in the body. I think people are forgetting that steroids are drugs and not just another nutrient. They work as hormones that enter the nucleus of cells and control the transcription of genes. They alter the biology of the cell, unlike nutrients, which only supply the building blocks and energy for cell maintenance and growth.

Nutrients can alter gene transcription.

However steroids do it FAR better.

Quote[/b] ]Do you think that the chart could possibly over shoot genetic potential.

yes

Quote[/b] ]This is what the calculater spat out. Im wondering if that is possible, I am 190 lbs. now with 15 inch arms and it seems like these numbers are light years away.

Predicted Maximum Stats at 8% Bodyfat
Lean body weight: 242
Chest Size (inches):55
Upper Arms Size (inches):19.2
Forearms Size (inches): 15.4
Neck Size (inches):18.97
Thighs Size (inches):29.2
Calfs Size (inches): 19.7

Whether the chart is right or wrong, there is no reason to accept it as a limit or a goal. If you think of 242lbm as a goal, it may seem too big of a change to achieve, so you may not achieve it. break it down into bite sized pieces nad work on them.

242lbs is getting on the large size, (for lean mass) at 5'11"
also depends on your 'structure' (brachiomporph etc limb lengths etc.)