Avoiding Burnout

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by NWlifter, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I'm in the babble mood, if I don't type my hair brained ideas out, it'll bug me, so I'll just drop this here, someday someone will read and either think, hey good idea, or who was this idiot? LOL

    Anyway, I mentioned something in my other thread and it gave me an idea to expand on, it's about people burning out during the end of a cycle. Burnout is usually systematic, your on the last week of your 5's, or your using myo-reps and really pushing it on that last phase and you get sick, super dead, .. burned out. Why not stagger different body parts?

    Here's one idea

    week one and two: Push muscles 15's pull and legs getting an SD (wait it'll work out right when you get going)
    week three and four: Push muscles 10's, legs 15's pull still on SD
    week five and six : Push 5's, legs 10's, pull 15's
    week seven and eight: Push on SD, legs on 5's, pull on 10's
    Week nine and ten:Push on 15's, legs on SD, pull on 5's
    week eleven and twelve:Push on 10's, legs on 15's, pull on SD
    week thirteen and fourteen: Push on 5's, legs on 10's, pull on 15's
    etc.
    • This way, you never have a full two weeks of boredom (total body SD)
    • You never have all muscles at the end of the 5's at the same time wiping you out systematically
    • And oddly, only 2 weeks of every 6 are you working the full body, yet you are still doing the same number of workouts per muscle over time. You can really work it hard and have less chance of burnout if you have legs at heavy 5's but push is on SD.
     
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  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Interesting proposal NW! Give it a whirl and let us know how it goes. There are now many studies showing the benefits of a full SD but no one, to my knowledge, has studied anything like you are proposing. I can also envision many variations similar to your program. My only personal negative on it is that I enjoy a week or two of no gym work and if I can time those with away vacations, I have no guilt about not working out.
     
  3. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Thanks, it's 'different' at least never would a person be in the 'everything killer at once' mode this way, 4 out of 6 weeks,something would be in SD mode.
    Now me, I hate taking a week off with zero training, I get super antsy, but I guess some like a full break too :) My only negative thoughts on it, are there is no 'end', your always in the beginning of one, middle of another and ending another, if you did want a break, you'd have to stop mid way though 2/3'rds of the body.

    Might be cool to some how do this with myo-reps, just trying to figure out 'what' is the progression with lighter myo-reps? Add mini sets?
    My brain now is trying to think of something that would be more a mini-cycle variation within the larger cycle to avoid burnout....
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  4. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    For right now, while I ponder on all this, I decided to do an abbreviated myo-rep workout and use the mini-(rest pause) sets as the 2 week block progression method.
    Did first workout tonight
    So will be (for now) like this
    Set to almost failure plus one mini set
    next workout two mini sets
    next 3
    next 4
    add weight
    set plus one mini set
    ect.
     
  5. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    I am doing something similar where this week I will be doing a 12 rep activation set followed by four 2 rep myo reps sets, next week will be five 2 rep myo rep sets and week 3 will do six 2 rep sets then depending on how my body feels will do another week of balls to the wall or drop to 10 reps followed by three 2 rep myo reps etc
     
  6. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah wow that's an awesome idea... LOVE it... that makes alot of sense! Rather than having everything training at the same pace, stagger them so not all training is all out...

    Yeah definitely be keen to see how you go if you tried that! I'll definitely do something like that at some stage I reckon. Yeah I do think there's a big benefit to a full body SD with no training, the CNS and the rest of you needs a break too, and I really enjoy the week or so off. Even though I love training and am itching to get back hehe, it's definitely nice to have a break. And I reckon a break can easily be inserted in anywhere in that sort of cycle, doesn't really matter if its mid 10s or whatever, can just pick up at the start or continue where you left off.

    Props for this idea mate! But yeah feel free to keep posting your thoughts on how to structure it etc!
     
  7. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    I spend my SD time carefully mapping out my next 6-8 week myo/HST cyle and loading it into my computer. Over the SD period, it is amazing how many "improvements" I come up with and adjust my program accordingly. I think the planning and researching part is half the fun.

    Nice to see some creative thinking out loud on here again. Props to all.
     
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  8. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Cool your actually doing that, it 'makes sense' to me, another way to ramp stimulation in an HST fashion over the blocks. cool.

    Thanks, true yes, on the one hand it keeps the system from having everything hard at once but does take away the full body SD that many enjoy. Maybe there's a way to set it up where the SD is still 'pure' yet everything else is staggered around. Can't think how.. but maybe...

    Yes for that then I guess this wouldn't work...
    thanks, it feels good to 'think' and post some whacky ideas again. Feels like old times!
     
  9. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    That seems cool, I feel like you would need to keep your lifts very much focused on isolation rather than compound. My reasoning is that as you get really tight in your setup you are getting a ton of isometric force across your whole body. I could be wrong but in my experience the isometric pressures have stopped a lot of my strength loss while I have been bench only for the last 4ish months.
     
  10. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    True, we can't totally isolate our body into perfect sections, I know with myself, it 'seems' good enough when I split in a push, pull, legs fashion.
     
  11. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Yeah I also love that planning stage too O&G and reckon it is half the fun for sure!

    Yeah I really reckon it's possible to optimise the setup, and that's the thing it doesn't have to be perfect, I don't think any system/cycle is, but the body can usually adapt as it deals with multiple stresses. This seems to really be alot kinder to the body and allows it to progress more naturally without risking burn out.

    There will be crossovers I'm sure, but I reckon push/pull/legs separates it nicely.

    So we have and could stagger:
    -Push as chest, shoulders, tris
    -Pull as back, bis, traps (rear delts maybe?)
    -Legs as quads, hamstrings, calves if inclined

    OR could even split the stagger halfways, starting the next group in week 3 or 4 (so as to only need to keep track of half):
    -Push as chest, shoulders, tris, quads, calves maybe
    -Pull as back, hamstrings, bis, traps (rear delts maybe?)

    OR maybe antagonists together (stagger it in thirds or quarters):
    - chest/back do week 1+2 15s
    - then start quads/hams etc etc


    And I guess it wouldn't matter really about overlap and particular muscle groups not really getting a break when starting a group that would utilise it too (e.g. back generally getting biceps involved etc), if a full body SD is implemented at some stage then they would get a good break.

    Would be more beneficial recovery-wise and I think really fun as well to train this way :)
     
  12. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Good thoughts, good ideas!

    I guess technically too, we don't need the full 24 hours a day for 2 weeks to plan our next setup, a 30 minute workout during the day shouldn't hog so much time that it leaves none to plan the next. But the mental break of no training and just being in that 'planning mode' is kinda nice..
    (of course, I've only taken one or two weeks off in the last 2 years lol, so I shouldn't talk!)
     
  13. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Hehe for some reason I take aaaaages to plan out a cycle... like a week or more haha, it's possible I overthink/plan it

    Ah wow I applaud you sir! Yeah I find rest very valuable to reset everything a bit, and a week or two off doesn't harm or lose anything but to each their own for sure :)
     
  14. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I'm just addicted to lifting! I feel weird if I dont' work out, my old body needs the exercise, I have a stationary bike too that I use but doesn't feel like enough if i don't strain my muscles a bit too lol

    Ha I do that all the time too though, always planning even when I shouldn't !
     
  15. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Yeah I'm pretty much the same too haha, feels weird when I'm not training! But I'm definitely scaling down or 'changing' how I approach training moreso. Even being mindful of how much tension is placed unnecessarily within the body while training, and keeping the tension on the target muscle only (obviously with some lifts there needs to be tension in others though), and really been exploring the mind-muscle connection which i actually feel is quite an overlooked aspect that i reckon is quite important in terms of training effect.
    It's on a basis of need moreso to change approach considering the last few months so it's really opened up a new dimension of training or mindset and attitude, which is why I revelled in hearing about this autoregulation stuff! I don't want to stop training so hopefully I can keep this up
     
  16. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    good thoughts, I agree.
    the muscles have NO idea what is on the bar, they only know activation and fatigue. They also don't 'feel' tension, they 'create' tension. A fully activated fiber puts out a fixed tension, does not matter what the load is, it creates 'its' tension. How many are doing it at each milisecond in time is what the total muscle tension is, but since hypertrophy is fiber specific, that part is irrelevant.So that's why I agree with you on load, 'feeling the muscle', etc. Very valid.

    Here is my log (including puny loads lol) from last summer, has my workouts and size increases as I went. you can sure see they were light loads!
    https://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/35404/

    6 weeks
    Weight + 3.6 lbs total
    Waist no change
    Chest + 1 inch total in 6 weeks
    Bi’s + 1 inch total in 6 weeks
    Forearms + ¼ total in 6 weeks
    Thighs + ¼ total in 6 weeks
    Calves + 3/8ths total in 6 weeks
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  17. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah wow, those are some awesome results! And the routine looks fun! 30s rests are tough for sure so lighter loads are necessary haha. Ah and I'm subscribed to Draper's newsletter, looove his poetic writing style haha!
     
  18. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is actually the sort of situation where I think specialization becomes important. Once you've reached a certain level, if you keep hammering away at the full body, you can end up spinning your wheels. Or in the quest of greatness, piling on more and more volume til you burn out.
    I find that you can expose the muscle groups you specialize on to a lot more volume than you normally would without burning out if you're only doing enough with the other muscle groups to maintain them. Of course, this is going to vary depending on your own recuperative ability. But that's how I avoid burn out while still making progress.

    I still think taking time off completely periodically is important.
     
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  19. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Yeah that makes alot of sense, and sort of a reason why I've been running more specialisation cycles the last few years. I've lost a fair bit of mass over past few months hence why I'm doing full body, and will probably work on that a bit more even, but yeah when its developed enough you'll just burn out by trying to coax or even force the whole thing to progress all at once all at the same intensity. That's why I like this idea of staggering bodyparts, it allows for (or it seems it would) progress while other parts are taking it easier, yet still progressing them.
     
  20. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Yes, that worked really well, at least 'that time' for me, the stars must have lined up lol
    30 seconds is short, but these even shorter myoreps are even tougher and should be a similar yet more efficient path.
     
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