Benefit To Doing More Rep Ranges Lasting 1 Week

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Matt1237, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    Hey guys

    My main question here as I read through the HST guide was whether or not there is benefit to doing a rep range of 15/12/10/8/6/4 over 6 weeks instead of 15/10/5. Or is it just making things overly complicated? My main reason for this was because I plan to use the same exercises from week to week and saw that each exercise got used 3 times per rep cycle. I thought perhaps this would make things a bit more efficient as well as improve my strength a bit more than the default layout. Thoughts?
     
  2. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Ok, assuming I read your post correctly you do the same routine every session, below is how your set up would look like assuming 100kgs is a 1 rep max

    15/10/5 set up - assuming set up is 75% / 80% / 85% / 90% / 95% / 100%

    15s - 50 / 52.5 / 55 or 57.5 / 60 / 62.5 / 65
    10s - 55 / 60 / 65 / 67.5 / 70 or 72.5 / 75
    5s - 65 / 67.5 or 70 / 72.5 / 77.5 / 80 or 82.5 / 85

    15/12/10/8/6/4 - assuming set up is 80% / 90% 100%

    15s - 52.5 / 60 / 65
    12s - 57.5 / 65 / 70 or 72.5
    10s - 60 / 67.5 /75
    8s - 62.5 or 65 / 72.5 / 77.5 or 80
    6s - 67.5 / 75 / 82.5
    4s - 70 / 80 / 87.5 or 90

    As you can see your proposal will have you training once a week at max for a specific rep range (6 times a cycle) opposed to once a fortnight (3 times a cycle) and repeating lower or similar loads lifted the week before but at lower reps twice a week from week 2 on (10 times a cycle) as opposed to repeating lower or similar loads in weeks 3 and 5 (6 times a cycle) - I have highlighted these in bold and italics. I hope this makes sense!!!!

    I would recommend you stick with the original set up until you have done a couple of cycles at least.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  3. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    So then how do I ensure there is no overlap with 15/10/5 cycle? From what I saw I will still overlap because I am going to have to ramp up to my X-RM over 6 workouts? Here is some of the number crunching I did to attempt to make the program I was using work. The numbers will probably be of use for either cycle style.

    Matthew Daniels HST
    Sets/Rep
    15/1-2
    12,10/2
    8,6/3
    4/4
    •Squat
    15:115
    12:130
    10:145
    8:160
    6:175
    4:190
    •Deadlift
    15:150
    12:165
    10:180
    8:195
    6:210
    4:225
    •Lying Leg Curl
    15:75
    12:90
    10:105
    8:120
    6:135
    4:150
    •Bench Press
    15:100
    12:115
    10:125
    8:140
    6:155
    4:170
    •Bent Over Barbell Row
    15:75
    12:90
    10:105
    8:120
    6:135
    4:150
    •Standing Military Press
    15:40
    12:50
    10:60
    8:75
    6:90
    4:105
    •Weighted Dips
    15:20
    12:25
    10:30
    8:35
    6:40
    4:45
    •Weighted Pull-ups (W/N)
    15:0/0
    12:5/5
    10:10/10
    8:15/15
    6:20/20
    4:25/25
    •Close Grip Bench Press
    15:90
    12:105
    10:120
    8:135
    6:150
    4:165
    •Barbell Curl
    15:40
    12:45
    10:50
    8:55
    6:60
    4:70
    •Weighted Ab Crunch
    15:0
    12:15
    10:30
    8:45
    6:60
    4:75
     
  4. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    As you can see above I just attempted to make it so that I have a 15lb gap between each max. That way I am constantly increasing the weight every workout. The only one that gives me any trouble is barbell curls just because I'm not really that strong.
     
  5. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Overlaps (or zig zagging) is a part of the HST system the only way you will prevent this is to calculate your 1 rep max and then work off percentages of that, my last 2 or 3 HST cycles have been based on the only 4 increments per rep range (trained with an A/B/C routine, 6 days per week) as follows

    15s - 55% / 60% / 62.5% and 65%
    10s - 67.5% / 70% / 72.5% / 75%
    5s - 77.5% / 80% / 82.5% / 85%

    The first workout of the 10s and 5s sessions started with AMRAP (as many reps as possible)
     
  6. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Or you could do it your way, but will you be at your max at the end of each week with every exercise with a constant 5lb increment, NO you will not, lets take for instance your bench @ 170 x 4 which suggest 192.5 for 1 rep - you will be starting at 85 which is 45% of 1 rep max which I believe is too low - I have added the projected loads to be lifted for the specific rep based on working back from a 1rm based on the Epley formula into your quote below.

    In summary the only time you are actually lifting at max load based on reps is the end of week 6.
     
  7. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    For you information if want to know how to calculate your 1rm using the Epley Formula you do the following

    Weight x 1 plus (Reps performed x 0.033) - so 170 x 4 would be 170 x 1.132 (1 plus (4 x 0.033) = 192.44
     
  8. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    Is it not possible to do progressive load-reps instead of just micromanaging things as much. Currently I have been doing ICF 5x5 and I am really enjoying the strength gains I'm receiving from that.

    Could I not just have it so that I actually do some progression work - like real progress? For example trying to go above and beyond my max over a weeklong period. As you can see some of the numbers coming from percentages are fractional or increments not possible at my gym, like a 2.5lb increase (my gym doesn't carry 1.25lb plates).

    I feel like I should just use the principles behind HST and maybe not necessarily use all the intense number crunching - I feel like it prematurely cuts off the strength gains I could be making on my compound lifts.

    In short - if I were to just grab a weight starting at 85% of my max for that rep range could I not just increase the weight/reps over two weeks.

    For example my max bench for 10 reps is roughly 125 lbs. So I start at 115, next workout do 120, next 125, next attempt 130 for 10, and then if I only get 10, next workout increase by 5 again (not likely, so work up from 8 until I can get 10 with that weight?

    That would seem more logical to real progressive loading especially at my low strength level.
     
  9. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    It is entirely up to you, the number crunching can be a bit daunting, you could always follow HST to the letter but just work back in 5lbs increments, for example your 125 x 10 reps would be 100 / 105 / 10 / 115 / 120 / 125 which means starting at 80% of 10rm or you could set it up that you last session is at 130 and you start at 105 instead but you will always get overlaps following HST though, it is part of the design of it.

    What you are supposed to do is after the 6 weeks do another 2 weeks increasing your 5rm then recalculate your new 10 and 15rm from your new 5rm.
     
  10. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    So then perhaps my original layout was okay. I just thought I wasn't supposed to zigzag because that defeats the progressive overload. But if it's all part of the program then maybe it's not so bad. Perhaps I'm just overthinking it all XD
     
  11. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    I think I just read so much that 5x5 really wouldn't be the best program for hypertrophy, so I wanted to trying to incorporate rep ranges across weeks like HST does. But it seems like some of the loads id be working with would be really low and in the case of the zigzagging almost a step backwards from rep ranges. Wouldn't this just be almost a pointless workout to go from doing say 100lbs at the end of my 15s to doing 85-90 at the beginning of my 10s?

    That's what I attempted to do was start at my 5RM and work backwards by 5lbs per workout to the beginning of my 15 cycle. But as you noted, some of the numbers would have me working at 40% of my 1RM
     
  12. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    As I said before the actual layout you proposed you were only at max load in week 6 (close on week 5 at approx 96%), just make sure at the end of each rep block you are lifting at least 100% of your rep max for that rep range (however you set it up), if you want to add 2.5 or 5lb to the bar then do it.
     
  13. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    It wouldn't be pointless as this system has worked for many people, you can avoid zig zagging as I described in post # 5 below, if you do 6 workouts per rep range you may have to repeat a couple of sessions in the 10s and 5s but at least your are not lifting lower loads which seems to be your biggest issue, try it for at least a cycle and see what you think, 6-8 weeks is no time at all in the overall scheme of things

    GOOD LUCK !!!!
     
  14. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    As a guide if you are going to change your rep range weekly and you are going to avoid the overlaps then the following %'s of your 1rm are what you will need to try and work within

    15 - 65/66% of 1rm
    12 - 70/71% of 1rm
    10 - 75% of 1rm
    8 - 79/80% of 1rm
    6 - 83/84% of 1rm
    4 - 88/89% of 1rm
     
  15. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    Okay :) thank you.
     
  16. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    I guess I wasn't all that concerned about the zigzagging - I just thought it wasn't supposed to happen :p
     
  17. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

  18. TangoDown

    TangoDown Member

    Remember that, according to HST principles, a specific load doesn't become ineffective after one session which is why zig-zagging is okay. It'd be one thing if you were doing like 70% of your 1RM right at the end of your cycle but you can repeat a specific load a few times within a couple of weeks and I think you'll be fine.

    Zig-zagging can also be good for reducing CNS fatigue, and since your primary goal is hypertrophy, you want to be constantly increasing load from cycle to cycle.
     
  19. Mattonaise

    Mattonaise Member

    Similar to what Tango said, the zig-zagging can help you recover a bit from your last rep max while still providing some growth stimulus. In your original layout I feel like hitting your rep maxes every week may beat you up if you aren't accustomed to it. Although you did just come off a linear progression program, so you're certainly used to it.
     
  20. Matt1237

    Matt1237 New Member

    Well that certainly makes things a lot more managable, I guess I got caught up in the progressive load thing and was thinking - I need to increase the weight EVERY workout I.E 3 workouts a week for 6 weeks I.E 24 workouts which I was like damn, biceps gonna get rekt. I am really looking forward to building a strong base of both strength as well as size (obviously with a focus on hypertrophy, thats why I'm here) but damn, after doing ICF 5x5 I literally watched all my lifts just skyrocket, going from 1 to nearly two plates on each sides for both my squat, achieved on my DL and took my bench up 25 lbs. in just 3.5 weeks. Before that I was doing the arnold blueprint style training on BB.com which is just volume on top of volume - but it had great results. I want to achieve those same great results with HST and have some quality gains in both size and strength - I guess I was starting to feel that HST was going to make my have bigger muscles but not really gain any strength. Silly me perhaps! Time to read this E-book!
     

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