Bryan, I was wondering why Primer uses whey isolate. You see, I work at GNC and we carry a product called "Profile" from GNC's own Pro Performance line. I was reading the research done on the product from the University of Texas and it was kind of interesting. The research basically concluded that using just straight amino's was more beneficial as a pre-workout amino "saturating" supplement. More so than even pure isolate. And on top of that, the research found that when combined with a high glycemic carbohydrate such as dextrose, protein synthesis during and after the workout was increased even more! It seems to make sense, I mean if the whole idea is to get as much amino's to the muscles during the workout as possible, why then use whey instead of just using the amino's? Is there any benefit of using the isolate instead? I greatly value your insight.
Bryan, why isolate in Primer?
- Thread starter baby a
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Actually, I can't refer you to any website unfortunately. The information I was reading about it was actually in a GNC fitness magazine called "Physical." I believe it is in the current issue (July or maybe August.) You can also find a summary of the research on the back of the actual box of the product called "Profile" at any GNC store. But basically, in summary, the research was conducted at the University of Texas Exercise Science and Metabolic Science Laboratory in Austin. It concluded that using a precise ratio of amino acids and a high glycemic carbohydrate like dextrose or sucrose, could increase protein synthesis during and after a workout dramatically. And the research indicated that it could do this better than even the purest whey isolate. Supposedly, from what I understand, the amino acid blend in this product, is precisely the ratio of aminos found in muscle tissue. The product was intended to be used for muscle rehabilitation, but was discovered that it had body building applications as well.
Actually, I just found this link to an article about this product and the topic in general.
http://www.gncproperformance.com/articles/article/?id=16
It doesn't go into great detail, but it's the gist. I was just wondering if there was any benefit of pre-workout whey isolate as opposed to EAA's.
http://www.gncproperformance.com/articles/article/?id=16
It doesn't go into great detail, but it's the gist. I was just wondering if there was any benefit of pre-workout whey isolate as opposed to EAA's.
I don't expect any real difference between whey and EAA. There are many ways to conduct such studies so that they favor one thing or the other. Ok, so an EAA solution may be absorbed slightly faster than a whey isolate. If you give both things right before a short workout it may show a difference in favor of the EAA. But if you give them half an hour ago, the whey may be better. We should have a study where both tested substances provide their amino acid peak at the same time, and then we can talk.
D
Dianabol
Guest
Dear baby a,
There is research to show that peptides are superior to free-form AAs when it comes to nitrogen retention. This could be "old" research because the Designer Protein people (and a few others) used this to support their marketing campaign of combining their protein powder with a high GI carb.
New research (not that I've read it) may indicate that AAs combined with a high GI carbohydrate results in greater nitrogen retention compared with certain whole proteins but then again, such news really is old hat. And if it comes from a muscle mag, chances are that the pages before or after that article must be touting the latest AA plus sugar supplement.
What can be safely said is that whey protein (be it concentrate or isolate) digests very quickly and is thus suitable for eliciting a state of hyperaminoacidaemia. AAs on the other hand:
1. will probably taste horrible (the greater the degree of hydrolysis, the more unpalatable it becomes).
2. could be more unstable in powder form (much more likely to go rancid that whey)
3. will be too expensive (work out the price per gram of protein between protein powders and the few AA tablets you see on the market).
Thus, even if AAs are better than whey, I am doubtful as to their being much better in hyperaminoacidaemic terms. Considering the potential disadvantages of AAs compared to whey protein, one is perhaps, better off with whey.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
There is research to show that peptides are superior to free-form AAs when it comes to nitrogen retention. This could be "old" research because the Designer Protein people (and a few others) used this to support their marketing campaign of combining their protein powder with a high GI carb.
New research (not that I've read it) may indicate that AAs combined with a high GI carbohydrate results in greater nitrogen retention compared with certain whole proteins but then again, such news really is old hat. And if it comes from a muscle mag, chances are that the pages before or after that article must be touting the latest AA plus sugar supplement.
What can be safely said is that whey protein (be it concentrate or isolate) digests very quickly and is thus suitable for eliciting a state of hyperaminoacidaemia. AAs on the other hand:
1. will probably taste horrible (the greater the degree of hydrolysis, the more unpalatable it becomes).
2. could be more unstable in powder form (much more likely to go rancid that whey)
3. will be too expensive (work out the price per gram of protein between protein powders and the few AA tablets you see on the market).
Thus, even if AAs are better than whey, I am doubtful as to their being much better in hyperaminoacidaemic terms. Considering the potential disadvantages of AAs compared to whey protein, one is perhaps, better off with whey.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
D
Dianabol
Guest
You're welcome, baby a.
Interestingly, GNC has a product that comprises of free-from AAs? How does this taste? If it tastes great, then it is tell-tale that the product has a low degree of hydrolysis, if at all. Or perhaps, a high degree of hydrolysis but masked by a truckload of sugar, ample flavourings etc, all of which might not be in the best interest of health.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
Interestingly, GNC has a product that comprises of free-from AAs? How does this taste? If it tastes great, then it is tell-tale that the product has a low degree of hydrolysis, if at all. Or perhaps, a high degree of hydrolysis but masked by a truckload of sugar, ample flavourings etc, all of which might not be in the best interest of health.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing
Heres my take (as I have read the actual research they are comparing it to)
It doesnt show that EAA are better than whey. What Tipton (the person who had done the research) has shown is EAA are the most important thing in protein intake (of course, because if they are not essential, then the body doesnt really need them). And 6gm of EAA was enough to maximally increase protein synthesis, and when combined with 35g of sucrose it decreased protein breakdown. Creating an overall anabolic environment.
Now, all Tiptons research is done in fasting subjects (required for the isotopic tracers he uses) and all of the subjects do not eat anything else for a few hours after the training session. If you eat anything before hand, there will still be aminos floating around in the blood (the Boirie research shows that aminos from a 30g casein casinate bolus will still be trickling in >4hrs after eating it).
Why use isolate, well one is cost, and two is taste. Proper free form aminos are relatively expensive, and utterly disgusting (never try to drink the formulas that PKU suffers have to drink, tastes like s#&t)
Sure, isolate will be a bit 'slower' than free form aminos, but the absolute speed isnt that much different (see Boiries second 'protein speed' paper in 2001)
Let me quote Tipton from a discussion section of a relatively recent review of his
"A lot of athletes hear about this (the EAA+carb research) conclude that amino acid supplements are great ad are eager to buy some so they can "get huge". I dont know if that is a good interpretation of our data. According to some of our unpublished data with protein feedings, I am convinced that 40g of whey protein ultimately increases muscle protein balance to about the same extent as amino acids do; it just takes a bit longer"
(40g of whey contains a lot more than 6g EAA)
It doesnt show that EAA are better than whey. What Tipton (the person who had done the research) has shown is EAA are the most important thing in protein intake (of course, because if they are not essential, then the body doesnt really need them). And 6gm of EAA was enough to maximally increase protein synthesis, and when combined with 35g of sucrose it decreased protein breakdown. Creating an overall anabolic environment.
Now, all Tiptons research is done in fasting subjects (required for the isotopic tracers he uses) and all of the subjects do not eat anything else for a few hours after the training session. If you eat anything before hand, there will still be aminos floating around in the blood (the Boirie research shows that aminos from a 30g casein casinate bolus will still be trickling in >4hrs after eating it).
Why use isolate, well one is cost, and two is taste. Proper free form aminos are relatively expensive, and utterly disgusting (never try to drink the formulas that PKU suffers have to drink, tastes like s#&t)
Sure, isolate will be a bit 'slower' than free form aminos, but the absolute speed isnt that much different (see Boiries second 'protein speed' paper in 2001)
Let me quote Tipton from a discussion section of a relatively recent review of his
"A lot of athletes hear about this (the EAA+carb research) conclude that amino acid supplements are great ad are eager to buy some so they can "get huge". I dont know if that is a good interpretation of our data. According to some of our unpublished data with protein feedings, I am convinced that 40g of whey protein ultimately increases muscle protein balance to about the same extent as amino acids do; it just takes a bit longer"
(40g of whey contains a lot more than 6g EAA)
Makers of Vendetta (Xtreme formulations) will tell you EAAs are better than whey and NEAAs hinder protein synthesis:
http://www.xtremeformulations.com/vendetta.html
http://www.xtremeformulations.com/vendetta.html
NEAAs do not hinder protein synthesis. Tipton found that NEAAs do not increase protein synthesis whereas EAAs do. Therefore, one might argue that if AAs that aren't needed for protein synthesis (NEAA) are competing for transport in periods of targeted anabolism (during training), it might be a bad thing. So in theory an EAA only mix without NEAA might be optimal, but a whole protein source will most likely get the job done as well.
Aaron, is this the article you're refering to:
Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Fauquant J, Callier P, Ballevre O, Beaufrere B. "The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention.". Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Feb;280(2):E340-8.
Aaron, is this the article you're refering to:
Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Fauquant J, Callier P, Ballevre O, Beaufrere B. "The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention.". Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Feb;280(2):E340-8.